# A Proposed Solution to the problem of Newcomers in Industry **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 29, 2021, 11:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857 "2021-03-29T11:06:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Quentin\_Schaefer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quentin_schaefer/32/471507_2.png) [@Quentin\_Schaefer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Quentin_Schaefer)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 9:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/21 "2021-03-30T09:30:26Z")
> [@Solonius\_Rex](#): > > maybe it was nocxium that wasnt found in hisec too Nah. You used to be able to get nocxium from pyroxeres. It was just a small amount, but it was better than nothing. They removed it from the ore a while back, though. ---
**Author:** ![Dantelion\_Shinoni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dantelion_shinoni/32/383315_2.png) [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dantelion_Shinoni)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 10:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/22 "2021-03-30T10:37:28Z")
You actually truly think that someone is going to pay $15/month to be a loser? ---
**Author:** ![Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kadia_kakki_sotken/32/261190_2.png) [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kadia_Kakki_Sotken)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/23 "2021-03-30T11:46:51Z")
Newer players could actually make a decent profit by manufacturing, but selling elsewhere rather than at trade hubs. It’s only The biggest trade hubs that suffer from this problem. Also, nobody knows how the prices are going to pan out yet anyway. Wait and see first. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 12:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/25 "2021-03-30T12:12:05Z")
> [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](#): > > You actually truly think that someone is going to pay $15/month to be a loser? They already do. Because being a “loser” in EVE is not so bad. In other words, viable. I don’t know where on Earth people get the idea that they’re entitled to compete with the big dogs right away, or ever. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 12:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/26 "2021-03-30T12:48:20Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > As for beginners in industry overall, in the current state beginners shouldn’t do industry. They could make vastly more income doing nearly anything else, then they can just buy into industry at the top end when their a rich veteran like the rest of us. People saying “but beginners can make stuff though” purely because they can technically get a blueprint and make an item are being quite dishonest by presenting that as engaging meaningfully in industry. Industry is semi passive income or a way to reduce your costs. The only reason for a new player to not partake in industry is lack of understanding. Despite what is said in this thread, there are tech1 items that are not only profitable to build but actually have higher margins than battleships and tech2 items. No noob meaningfully engages in any activity except perhaps pvp and that’s situational as well. Players need to shake off this idea that they should instantly make billions with no investment. ---
**Author:** ![Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kadia_kakki_sotken/32/261190_2.png) [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kadia_Kakki_Sotken)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 12:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/28 "2021-03-30T12:58:19Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > As for beginners in industry overall, in the current state beginners shouldn’t do industry. They could make vastly more income doing nearly anything else Industry is a secondary income profession. You set your manufacturing jobs and then you have to find something else to do. Usually, it’s mining or something like that. Whatever you pick to fill the time with inbetween amnufacturing jobs is your primary ISK maker. ISK isn’t supposed to come from one place only. You need to find smart ways to combine different ISK making methods in an efficient way. If there is any critism to be had, it’s that the game doesn’t teach you this, you have to figure it out for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Shea\_Tzestu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shea_tzestu/32/263279_2.png) [@Shea\_Tzestu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shea_Tzestu)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 1:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/30 "2021-03-30T13:25:29Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > EVE is a competitive game. Fact check. No, Eve is not a competitive game. It is a MMO that is in no way fairly game moderated, some players in Eve are where they are because CCP put them there. A lot of dissatisfaction in Eve stems from its lack of competitiveness, developer corruption & non transparent game moderation. Nearly all major space drama over the year is a result of this. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 1:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/31 "2021-03-30T13:39:18Z")
> [@Shea\_Tzestu](#): > > Fact check. Opinion check: your facts are opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 2:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/32 "2021-03-30T14:17:58Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not about making billions, it’s about making more than the alternatives. There isn’t an _alternative_. The choice isn’t industry OR mining. It isn’t industry OR mission running. Industry has minimal impact on other activities. It instead often complements other activities. > [@Shea\_Tzestu](#): > > Fact check. > > No, Eve is not a competitive game. Before calling yourself a fact checker, you should perhaps understand what a fact is. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/34 "2021-03-30T16:20:43Z")
Everyday a new lucas fail. 🤦‍♂️ Not only can new players do both trading and industry and diversify between the two, but industry does not require you to stay near a market hub like you’re telling them to. Industry does not affect the other activities they indulge in like station trading does. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/36 "2021-03-30T17:27:13Z")
![55949665.0.0](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/4/d/5/4d5aaa853e24fa02a5cd381657f0e97890762802.jpeg) fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/37 "2021-03-30T17:29:06Z")
It took me years of training and billions and billions worth of skill books, BPOs and research to get to the point where I made a decent profit as a builder. A new player these days can match that profit easily by buying some SP and training immediately into the skills needed to run any of the ISK fountains that CCP is trying to bribe people into staying with. Industry is way at the bottom of the list of things to do for a new player. So farting around with the mechanic accomplishes nothing for CCP. It’s not going to incentivize anyone to start that career path. It’s busywork for devs trying to stay employed. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Vaendil\_Reyksen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vaendil_reyksen/32/259961_2.png) [@Vaendil\_Reyksen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vaendil_Reyksen)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 6:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/38 "2021-03-30T18:20:45Z")
If I want to build in a game EVE wouldn’t be my first choice of game. There are at least two dozen games out there that perfectly simulate that activity and EVE isn’t one of them. I don’t know what they’re trying to accomplish over at CCP but they need to realize one thing: EVE will never be more than a space Pew-Pew game. A somewhat entertaining Pew-Pew game ( if you’re willing to overlook the devastatingly boring travel timesink ) but still a very small part of space adventure gaming. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/39 "2021-03-30T18:21:08Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So a new player with limited capital can magically invest that capital in both industry and trade at the same time? Does CCP know that you’ve found an exploit that allows you to double spend your ISK? I bet i can make a bigger strawman than this: So you’re saying having active jobs in the industry window disables the market interface? At the end of the day, industry is something new players can do along side other activities (eXcEPt StAtIoN TrAdInG 🤪). There’s no reason for new players not to do it aside from lack of knowledge or the attitude that they need to break in big first time. ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 7:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/41 "2021-03-30T19:28:38Z")
> [@Cendric\_De\_Credsiu](#): > > Missions, you used to be able to find a lot of your low and null sec ores in missions or other exploration pockets in high sec. Currently and I run a ton of missions I have found zero in missions that I used to find those rare ores in all the time. Bringing that back at least provides a means for players to go and mine the stuff themselves without going into low/null/wh or buying it. Even if it means not doing it at a traditional belt. Right now honestly best way to get that rarer stuff without buying it or going into low/null/WH is how I do it via mission running and reproccing all the loot, and scanning down tech 2 drones and reproccing them. What percentage of the entire price do those low/null minerals constitute though, per blueprint? What is it, like 5, 10%? I dont know of a lot of new players who would go to that distance to get 5-10% of the cost of the blueprint. LIterally, thats like 90% profit. > [@Cendric\_De\_Credsiu](#): > > I agree with you that mining is a great option to build the thing or the mission reproc method. However if I can sell the materials for 500 mill vs a built ship for 300 mill then its a better profit to just mine it and sell it. Once again no incentive to build it my self. Thats the biggest barrier to new industry players in my opinion is that its actually no profitable to sell or do the tech 1 stuff for the most part. There are a few things that are and do sell but unless your actually seeing or know how to find what those are its a perceived barrier rather than challenge to overcome to new industry players. Again, I dont see this as an issue. Lets take the Raven for example. Pretty standard L4 ship that a lot of new players use. ![EVE001](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/a/a/3aa92d4e0f4e8c00ce8dd34c737e025a0aa9ab72.jpeg) Current mat prices are around 352 million isk, if you were to buy outright. ![Eve03](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/c/f/5/cf5655c7edd0b46968cf9a3f5f142e753c7b6d3f.png) I bought the minerals, and tried to directly sell it. Only sells for 247 million. ![Eve02](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/a/d/b/adb2903122cd6afbf00e9ca81104e35cc7451a4c.jpeg) Meanwhile, people are buying ravens at around 300 million isk, Selling at 340. New players arent going to be creating dozens and dozens of sell orders and wont be doing the 0.1 isk game either. So yes, It is profitable to build. Especially for new players. This isnt even a Niche item, its a very common item. > [@Cendric\_De\_Credsiu](#): > > Your null sec corps and such will always have the advantage. Like I said that shouldn’t change. I am saying that the advantage shouldn’t be so large that it makes no sense for a new player to get into industry at all other than mining. There is a ton of other activities that will net that new player more ISK than the Tech 1 Crafting ever will. Currently running L4 missions or even T1 and T2 Abyssal nets me more ISK than trying to craft or mine the matts for any T1 BP will net me in sale. I dont think a lot of new players are running L4s off the bat, especially not solo. When you consider how it takes time to grind l1, l2, l3 missions, then the rise is comparable to industry. If youre a brand new player, you dont start the game by flying L4s, and neither should you start industry by making a dent. L1 and L2 missions give out completely comparable, that is to say, very minimal amounts of ISK. > [@Cendric\_De\_Credsiu](#): > > For me industry is about getting into the bigger stuff or T2 crafting other than that its not really worth it for me. I cant even understand what you mean by this. T2 crafting has never been worth it for me, no matter what stage of industry i was at. Everything I did in industry that meant anything was something that any new player can acheive, because even when i was building Supercarriers and selling them, (mostly)none of those materials were acheivable from mining in hisec. I built my first carrier from within the ores that i got from hisec, after all.(Nidhoggur, by the way, and i lost it in a very annoying but must say high praise gank.) Building cruisers isnt too different from building Battleships, you just make more units, and more units means the profits average themselves out. You can make 1 raven or 20 stabbers, the amount you get events itself out. > [@Cendric\_De\_Credsiu](#): > > New blueprints, new reactions, ect. Older players can afford the investment to buy all these the second they are released. They wont have to guess what ones are going to be better to get or not as they can just buy and build them all thus allowing them to set the price, flood the market, or what ever they want with these new things. So yes that helps solidify their hold on the market. Nothing wrong with that. Just seems like the changes are designed with that in mind vs actually making it accessible to everybody including newer players. So what? Do you know how many raven blueprints copies exists out there? Do you know how much they are sold for today? The older players who buy these originals the moment they come out, will have a small amount of time where they have the monopoly, but thats it. Copies are made, sold, and eventually they become so saturated that anyone can access them with ease. In that sense, I believe Older players who buy these originals, are doing a service to everyone else in the industry. They make copies, which means that everyone else can afford to make them without shilling out billions for the original. Remember, the originals are originally sold by NPCs. Their cost is set at whatever billions of isk CCP set it as, and no one has access to cheaper versions. The older players have to shill out billions to buy the originals, with the full knowledge that the copies they make will be sold at a fraction, a _fraction_ of the price. The only way new players are going to be able to afford to make these new structures/modules/stuff is if older players buy them and sell the copies. Lets not trick ourselves into thinking that without older players, new players would be able to somehow afford these blueprints. Its the direct opposite. > [@Cendric\_De\_Credsiu](#): > > Once again not saying any of that is wrong or needs to change. Rather I am stating that we need to find a way to encourage and keep the new players that want to get into industry the correct incentives to do so. Perhaps I am phrasing it wrong or not explaining my self properly as far as my point of view goes. > > True, however the prices of ships are still cheaper than selling the stuff to make said ships (for the most part depending on ship and where you get your matts you can make a very small profit). As long as scarcity continues that will be true. Ending scarcity will lower the prices of materials due to larger supply hopefully making it now more profitable to make the ship or fittings than it is to sell the materials. > > Right now lets say I mine up (including getting rare matts out of null/low/wh or ratting) all the stuff needed to make a battleship if I can sell all of it and make enough to buy the battleship plus a decent amount of the fittings or all of them depending on how I fit it. Then there is no incentive for me to actually take the time to make the item myself for personal use or to sell it. Even if I dont make enough profit from selling the matts to fit it if I am making more selling the matts then I am from selling the ship then there is no incentive for me to even make the ship. The raven example i gave above pretty much demonstrates that youre wrong, but what youre saying makes no sense. I built all my firsts, My first obelisk, anshar, Nidhoggur, Phoenix, Hel. I afforded the fittings because I built more things. I built like 7 or 8 Supercarriers, cant remember the exact number. I built all 6 of my rorquals. I built god knows how many carriers. Fewer dreads though, those took longer and were more of a bother for me to build. Thats how an Industry toon should work. You dont just build a single Battleship and say “Thats it, thats all im gonna build, industry for me is over. Now how do i Fit this battleship? I have no more isk”. I cant even fathom the logic behind what youre saying. > [@Cendric\_De\_Credsiu](#): > > Thats not counting the cost of the blue print either. If we increase the supply of the materials then we make it more profitable to build the ship thus encouraging more people to make stuff not even to sell but to use for them selves. Either way that gets more players into industry making stuff. Blueprint costs are _NOTHING_. Even when i was making Supercarriers, I would just go around contracts in jita and accept the cheapest bulkiest capital ship part blueprints. Case and point, a 10/20 Raven blueprint is being sold for 3.5 million isk in jita contracts right now. That is nothing. Are you really an industry-focused player? I never knew anyone who ever found themselves worrying about blueprint costs. Copies are available for **dirt-cheap** and even when i was making dozens of carriers i still didnt consider buying originals because i had so many copies. > [@Cendric\_De\_Credsiu](#): > > Basically at the end of the day I want new players to stick around, I want new industry players building and selling stuff. Having talks about it helps us find ways to make that happen without screwing over or taking away the advantages that the older players have earned. > > New players doing these things benefits all aspects of the game. CCP makes more money, we get more people to shoot for the pvpers, it gets more people out into low pop systems, more mining going on thus more ganking going on ect. Basically more new players equals more player driven content, and thats not a bad thing for the game. Sure. But I just dont understand your reasoning at all. As someone who came up from nothing, and loved building my first ships ive ever used, industry has always been accessible to me. I didnt have a 12 man fleet of Hulks and a dedicated Orca/Hauler, it was just a single account mining in a retreiver. I was ganked, I made friends with the Ganker, I joined Code because they are such an amazing group of people, And yes, with my single account, I was still a tiny fish in a tiny pond and i couldnt do anything to compete with larger entities, but that didnt matter, i still made isk, bought my own tower so that i could get better refining rates and access to compression, etc etc. Newer players have it a lot easier now. ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/42 "2021-03-30T19:29:19Z")
> [@Quentin\_Schaefer](#): > > Nah. You used to be able to get nocxium from pyroxeres. It was just a small amount, but it was better than nothing. They removed it from the ore a while back, though. Its been a while since i did hisec mining/refining/building so yeah, that may be the case. ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/43 "2021-03-30T19:34:51Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > As for beginners in industry overall, in the current state beginners shouldn’t do industry. They could make vastly more income doing nearly anything else, then they can just buy into industry at the top end when their a rich veteran like the rest of us. People saying “but beginners can make stuff though” purely because they can technically get a blueprint and make an item are being quite dishonest by presenting that as engaging meaningfully in industry. With anything market-related though, you need to find the proper thing to build before deciding what to put your time/effort/isk into. I never went into Modules for that very same reason, but I made tons by building ships. I looked at the market, did the rough calculations by myself, caluclated how much ore i needed to mine, etc, and refined and built it. Brand new players are already encourged by a lot of people to mine, industry is only a single step above that. Does it take a little time and effort to research how much minerals/ore you need, what sells and what doesnt, etc? Sure. But thats the same with everything else in EVE. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > There’s more risk in industry too. As a new player won’t have a a lot of capital, they have to sell what they make to release it. If they spend some time making an item but by the time it’s done there’s a drop in price so they’d be at a loss, they either have to sell at a loss or sit with their ISK tied up in assets. For a larger producer it’s not a problem because they’ll just be able to throw it up on the market then ignore it and work on other lines. Can I ask why youre completely cutting out the mining aspect of industry? I did a lot of mining, I know a lot of new players also do a lot of mining, and I do consider it a part of industry. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro\_Yurgin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pedro_yurgin/32/361653_2.png) [@Pedro\_Yurgin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pedro_Yurgin)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 7:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/44 "2021-03-30T19:50:55Z")
> [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](#): > > Following the interview of CCP Rattati, I’ve been thinking about one of the problems he raised about Industry in it’s current state, in that it is very hard for a newcomer or someone without the infrastructure of the bigger players to be able to make a dent into Industry. Why does everyone forget about I Choose You Holdings? These guys have FREAKING SOYOTOS XL industry ready to go with free offices. No risk to new players and all the benefits of these billions of isk monstrosity. You think a new player should pay 15 USD and by the end of the first month should be cranking out battleships or whatever after 30 days? > [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](#): > > Create temporary spaces where new resources appear that can only be in used in that space and ask for the creation of new infrastructures and chains, and that after a certain time disappear and reset the playing field for everyone. Just no. Make friends and group up. Find a group that is doing what you are. I don’t know that other orca in that ice belt; ask them what’s up. See where it goes. Use what’s around you. New corps and players don’t all need their own structures. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/46 "2021-03-30T20:15:51Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It wasn’t a strawman though. Did you hurt yourself in your confusion? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The biggest barrier to a new player in terms of industry and trade is lack of capital. Well no because you can make consumables like ammo with very little starting capital and the cost saving is immediate. And you don’t have to travel AND you can do it whilst you do other activities. Mods and such also take little investment to get started in. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > There are better semi-passive income sources than industry that require the same capital. That’s my position. No. Your position is: There’s **no point** in noobs doing industry because they can sit in a station and station trade for better income. You’re saying noobs shouldn’t make their own ammo whilst they run missions or make some mods on the side before heading to a market with their LP items. You’re saying instead of doing **any** industry, they should sit in a market all day and station trade. Or would you like to change the goal posts some more. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > As for beginners in industry overall, in the current state beginners shouldn’t do industry. They could make vastly more income doing nearly anything else, ---
**Author:** ![Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kadia_kakki_sotken/32/261190_2.png) [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kadia_Kakki_Sotken)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 8:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857/47 "2021-03-30T20:16:30Z")
The reality is that you can make money with industry if you don’t sell your stuff at the trade hubs. The trade hubs are the places where the cheapest items are sold, so obviously if you sell there then you will make the least amount of money. The reason is because it’s easy to sell at trade hubs so the competition is extremely high. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-proposed-solution-to-the-problem-of-newcomers-in-industry/302857.md?page=3)