# A significant update to Industry **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [March 26, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303 "2021-03-26T15:00:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![DOA\_JSE](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/doa_jse/32/263710_2.png) [@DOA\_JSE](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DOA_JSE)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/417 "2021-03-30T11:30:05Z")
Is there an error in the spreadsheet with the network conduits mats? Is the 40 Hypnagogic Neurolink Booster/Cogni-Emotive Neurolink Booster/Sense-Heuristic Neurolink Booster/Ultradian-Cycling Electro-Neural Signaller correct? This implies that at current prices these items cost 25-30m each. So using 100 of these in a faction battleship adds 2.5bn to their cost! If one only used 1 in the blueprint, then the unit cost would be 1m-1.2m, in which case 100 would add 100m to the cost of a faction battleship. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 11:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/418 "2021-03-30T11:32:56Z")
> [@Vela\_Lightbringer\_Ho](#): > > This new change does not make it any significantly easier. But it does, new solo industry players can now skip the market for resources. This new change allows new industrialists to make simple t1 ships with minerals they obtained themselves mining in high sec, so people aren’t forced to set up industry next to an existing trade hub for minerals. (And compete with the thin margins there!) That definitely makes things easier for new industrialists. ---
**Author:** ![Vela\_Lightbringer\_Ho](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vela_lightbringer_ho/32/255621_2.png) [@Vela\_Lightbringer\_Ho](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vela_Lightbringer_Ho)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/419 "2021-03-30T11:53:24Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > This new change allows new industrialists to make simple t1 ships with minerals they obtained themselves mining in high sec, so people aren’t forced to set up industry next to an existing trade hub for minerals. (And compete with the thin margins there!) … Cause they’re not gonna have to go to a tradehub to sell later. Right. And they’re also not gonna need to go to null to get actually decent margins. Cause it’s totally worth it to build t1 frigates and dessies. 😃 You’ve gone of the ledge my lad. This change is increasing tedium by a huge amount for everybody but the first day industrialist (that is, what industrialists do on their first day and never again). And for these first day industrialists, it’s not even a noticeable change, since in all practical sense they will be near a tradehub anyways. Next. ---
**Author:** ![Cpt\_WhiteEye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cpt_whiteeye/32/473463_2.png) [@Cpt\_WhiteEye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cpt_WhiteEye)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 12:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/420 "2021-03-30T12:06:04Z")
You know what. Just becuase you said that im going to shut down all production and make nothing but T1 Destroyer/Frigates. Hundreds and millions of them and flood the market to a point where new players will definiately not make any profit on anything. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/421 "2021-03-30T12:28:10Z")
> [@Vela\_Lightbringer\_Ho](#): > > … Cause they’re not gonna have to go to a tradehub to sell later. Right. And they’re also not gonna need to go to null to get actually decent margins. Cause it’s totally worth it to build t1 frigates and dessies. It’s clearly ‘worth it’ since we don’t have a frigate and destroyer shortage. ---
**Author:** ![DOA\_JSE](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/doa_jse/32/263710_2.png) [@DOA\_JSE](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DOA_JSE)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 12:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/422 "2021-03-30T12:41:51Z")
@CCP_Rattati Would appreciate a reply on the question above. ---
**Author:** ![Vela\_Lightbringer\_Ho](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vela_lightbringer_ho/32/255621_2.png) [@Vela\_Lightbringer\_Ho](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vela_Lightbringer_Ho)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 12:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/423 "2021-03-30T12:47:02Z")
Not as a small time high sec industrialist it’s not. It’s only worth it in large scale, with good ME. You are only proving further your utter incompetence on the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 12:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/424 "2021-03-30T12:51:40Z")
You must have the Tech2 BPO for _Goalpost on Wheels_. 🤣 Also now you’re talking about profit - which is _business_. If you’re having trouble with profit, get better at _business_. Industry is building things. If someone wants 20 Thrashers but doesn’t want to go to Jita to buy them and then fly them out 1 by 1 to where they live, it’s absolutely worth it for them to build them right where they live. Which now they will be able to. 🥳 ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/426 "2021-03-30T13:14:04Z")
> [@Vela\_Lightbringer\_Ho](#): > > If your budding industrialist is going at it with no care for what their time and energy is worth, then they’re not worth my time either. Someone starting with industry has to learn how to do industry before they make a profit. That ‘getting into ship building industry’ part has been made easier. Whether it is profitable is completely irrelevant until that point, that would be the _next_ step. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/427 "2021-03-30T13:14:07Z")
> [@Vela\_Lightbringer\_Ho](#): > > There is no moving goalposts in my arguments. We’re talking about profit and industry, which are, wait for it… Business. You’re the one shifting your points around and defending tooth and nail a stupid change. Sure bud. 😉 👍 > [@Vela\_Lightbringer\_Ho](#): > > Of course there are freight costs to everything, just like your mined minerals aren’t free. > If your budding industrialist is going at it with no care for what their time and energy is worth, then they’re not worth my time either. 🥅 > [@Vela\_Lightbringer\_Ho](#): > > Or are you suggesting we should cater to “solo” play entirely? Strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Lis\_Torin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lis_torin/32/204820_2.png) [@Lis\_Torin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lis_Torin)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 1:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/428 "2021-03-30T13:20:16Z")
Making profit is part of industry. If you do industry just to change thing A to thing B. You are no different from people that claim, their minerals are free. Current f\* up industry and no profit in T1 (no profit for new players) is result of such attitude. Market is integral part of industry ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 1:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/429 "2021-03-30T13:27:09Z")
> [@Lis\_Torin](#): > > Making profit is part of industry. If you do industry just to change thing A to thing B. You are no different from people that claim, their minerals are free. He wrote, you can’t start industry AND make a profit. You read, you can’t do industry AND make a profit. that’s unrelated. ---
**Author:** ![Vela\_Lightbringer\_Ho](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vela_lightbringer_ho/32/255621_2.png) [@Vela\_Lightbringer\_Ho](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vela_Lightbringer_Ho)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 1:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/430 "2021-03-30T13:28:15Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Someone starting with industry has to learn how to do industry before they make a profit. > > That ‘getting into ship building industry’ part has been made easier. Whether it is profitable is completely irrelevant until that point, that would be the _next_ step. That is ridiculous. So L1 missions should be done at a loss, then? Because they’re “learning” how to run missions? No. You don’t get into an activity at a loss. Besides, what’s there to learn? To press “build” with a simple list of requirements, and waiting? Seriously? The whole learning part of industry is the “turning a profit” part (which can be further subdivised into “mechanical efficiency” -e.g. using an appropriate structure, with appropriate rigging, potentially in more dangerous space, as well as of course the bluepringt ME-, “production line efficiency” -e.g. “what am I willing to source locally to reduce freight costs”, that’s about it in T1 manufacturing, gets more complex for T2 and further obviously-, “cornering a market”, etc.) And, again, there _was_ no learning difficulty in T1 manufacturing before. Now there _is_ with the added complexity. There was no noticeable simplification of the lower “tiers” of T1s. I’m not only talking as an industrialist here either. As a person who likes to fly ships, I’m also quite bothered that the market is gonna be upturned entirely for changes that, if I can only approve of the stated intent, will not reach any of its stated goals. Again. I’ll stop even trying to reply to @Xuixien, this is either masterful trolling or lack of oxygenation at birth. Can’t tell. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 1:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/431 "2021-03-30T13:33:47Z")
> [@Lis\_Torin](#): > > Making profit is part of industry. If you do industry just to change thing A to thing B. You’re so focused on profit that you’re forgetting that industry can have other purposes too. I do some industry but care little about profit. I usually turn A into B because B is easier to sell, use or move. Not because B is ‘more profitable’. Try to split ‘industry’ and ‘profit’, ignore the profit part for a moment and look only at what industry is really doing by itself: like you said, it _allows players to turn A into B_. And this update allows new players to turn A into B **more easily** for the small T1 ships. Which was the point I was making. > [@Vela\_Lightbringer\_Ho](#): > > That is ridiculous. So L1 missions should be done at a loss, then? Because they’re “learning” how to run missions? No. You don’t get into an activity at a loss. When I set up my PI planets I’m definitely ISK negative at the start as initial investment (Epithals, command centers, infrastructure and upgrades). When I start doing exploration I definitely need to learn not dying before I make a profit. And it took me a while as newbe to find my footing in null belt ratting as I lost more ships to rats and enemy players than I gained ISK. Eventually when I knew how to do those activities the ISK starts to come in. It is really common that profits are a secundary (or even lower) priority when trying something new. I don’t see why this is different for industry. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 1:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/432 "2021-03-30T13:34:59Z")
> [@Edmorte\_Fehrnah](#): > > To produce, yes. > > The market regulates itself in theory. Not that this is gonna make any difference to the multibox gankers, just saying there’s not a guarantee to sell price drop. There’s no guarantee of a price drop vs the current price, no. But there _is_ a guarantee of a price drop vs [the price to produce if material requirements on Destroyers remained unchanged]. 25% fewer mats is 25% fewer mats. ---
**Author:** ![Vela\_Lightbringer\_Ho](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vela_lightbringer_ho/32/255621_2.png) [@Vela\_Lightbringer\_Ho](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vela_Lightbringer_Ho)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 1:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/433 "2021-03-30T13:43:21Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > When I set up my PI planets I’m definitely ISK negative at the start as initial investment (Epithals, command centers, infrastructure and upgrades). When I start doing exploration I definitely need to learn not dying before I make a profit. And it took me a while as newbe to find my footing in null belt ratting as I lost more ships to rats and enemy players than I gained ISK. Eventually when I knew how to do those activities the ISK starts to come in. That doesn’t track. As you said, for the PI : it’s initial investment. That ship you use for belt ratting is also initial investment, and for industry, that’s the minerals and blueprints. You dying in belts or explo sites is the risk of the activity, and yes you learn how to mitigate those. For industry, those risks are making a mistake in cost/sale calculations, forgetting to account for a tax, getting ganked while moving things, or simply the market shifting. This is already here. As for your argument about turning A into B because B will sell better or is easier (thus cheaper) to move, that’s exactly talking about profit 🙂 It’s not only about getting the most out of the initial investment, it’s also making the process more efficient (freight costs for instance) and keeping the money in motion. It’s all nice and well to get 100% margin on an item, but if it takes 3 months to sell, you’d have gotten more out of that initial investment if the money had gone through 15 cycles of a 10% margin item in the same amount of time. You can’t dissociate industry - fundamentally an economical activity- from its economics. (and screw slowmode holy crap) ---
**Author:** ![Lis\_Torin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lis_torin/32/204820_2.png) [@Lis\_Torin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lis_Torin)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/434 "2021-03-30T13:45:42Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > I do some industry but care little about profit. I usually turn A into B because B is easier to sell, use or move. Not because B is ‘more profitable’. So you are no different from saying “minerals I mine are free”. You are decreasing value of asset. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > And this update allows new players to turn A into B **more easily** for the small T1 ships. As far I know. They could and still can mine ore, sell it on market and buy small T1 ship. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 1:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/435 "2021-03-30T13:49:31Z")
> [@Vela\_Lightbringer\_Ho](#): > > That doesn’t track. As you said, for the PI : it’s initial investment. That ship you use for belt ratting is also initial investment, and for industry, that’s the minerals and blueprints. > You dying in belts or explo sites is the risk of the activity, and yes you learn how to mitigate those. For industry, those risks are making a mistake in cost/sale calculations, forgetting to account for a tax, getting ganked while moving things, or simply the market shifting. This is already here. yes, so ? As you just explained, it’s totally possible to do other activities without a profit. I tried PI in HS and the sheer taxes made me negative . You keep dying so you are negative. You LEARN to become positive. You just don’t start positive. You are asking for a special treatment for industry. > [@Lis\_Torin](#): > > So you are no different from saying “minerals I mine are free”. You are decreasing value of asset. Actually YOU are “things I haul are free”. Ease of transport is to be taken into account in your activity, just like time. > [@Lis\_Torin](#): > > As far I know. They could and still can mine ore, sell it on market and buy small T1 ship. Yes, but now they can also produce stuff. Therefore they have more choices. So the industry is more complex, and at the same time more easy to get into. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/436 "2021-03-30T14:03:08Z")
> [@Lis\_Torin](#): > > As far I know. They could and still can mine ore, sell it on market and buy small T1 ship. This requires a nearby market hub. ---
**Author:** ![Admiral\_M\_fune](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/admiral_m_fune/32/259253_2.png) [@Admiral\_M\_fune](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Admiral_M_fune)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/437 "2021-03-30T14:10:39Z")
This change is a good thing. Industry was too simple and too easy. Now players will have real fun gathering all the components to fabricate what they need and construct all kinds of ships. Finally, CCP moving the right direction and EVE will benefit from happier players. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303.md?page=20) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303.md?page=22)