# A significant update to Industry **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [March 26, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303 "2021-03-26T15:00:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 5:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/600 "2021-04-27T17:17:11Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/c/6/f/c6fe9b7fb9a6d507e6414a932e17fee6650f2106.png) > [@Xuixien](#): > > Do you not understand how distribution curves work? Do you? ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 5:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/601 "2021-04-27T17:19:48Z")
Great! So based on that image, about 15% of the population are “introverts” and 15% are “extroverts”. The remaining 65% of people are “typical” and fall within 1 standard deviation of the mean, making them neither “introverts” nor “extroverts”. Try to get away from binary thinking, friend. ^-^ ---
**Author:** ![Xauxage](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xauxage/32/462223_2.png) [@Xauxage](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xauxage)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/602 "2021-04-27T17:39:54Z")
Yeah, it was shocking. I told a corp mate I’d build him a procurer and all of the sudden it’s 6x nocx than before. So like 15m more in mats… ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/603 "2021-04-27T17:52:59Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > making them neither “introverts” nor “extroverts”. Not neither but either-or depending on situation. It is preferred behavior not binary state. > [@Xuixien](#): > > Making it so that players must interact with each other in larger groups to do an increasing set of activities means more interaction and thus more retention. If you make it a “must” you only retain 15% of people who score highest on extroversion. 15% of introverts AND 65% who deviate and diverse might have a problem with “must”. I was fascinated by “Friendship Machine” talk initially, but now I think CCP Ghost’s claim that “people tend to stay longer, play longer if they join corps, join fleets”, is a mantra on par with “scarcity breeds war”. I mean it might be statistical error. They claim they have hundreds of thousands of people trying out EVE every year and they have abysmal renention numbers. Those retention numbers might well be statistically insignificant. > [@Why people play](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-people-play/240493/1): > > ## Solo gameplay > > It’s a common thing to hear people say in gaming forums “you can’t play this game solo, its an MMO”. > > In this classic [GDC 2011 talk, BioWare Austin’s Damion Schubert](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2l2ZxNhCSg) (0:51:23) discusses the rationale for solo playstyles in MMORPGs. > > Being a ‘loner’ implies and requires other people - namely those which are being avoided. > > The 10 Different Kinds of Loners: > > 1. The new kid in town. Many people prefer doing their learning alone, away from social scrutiny and the potential shame of failure. > 2. The Daria. A staggering 90% of the readers of the most mailing lists and message boards never post. These ‘lurkers’ still find value in just watching - because other people are interesting. > 3. The Sociopath. “It’s long been known that people are less inhibited over the phone than in person, and people are now aware that they are less inhibited in email than on the phone, and I believe they are less inhibited in MUDs than in email. This leads to an interesting conclusion for MUD design - penalties won’t solve your playerkiller problem. Helping them gain empathy will.” - Raph Koster > 4. Mr. Lunch At His Desk. Many players are playing under real-world constraints, such as during limited break opportunities at work, or at home when the spouse and baby are asleep. > 5. The Introvert. A huge percentage of the population are Myers Briggs ‘introverts’ - between 25-50% of the population, depending on which study you read. > 6. The Adrift. Having a social group disintegrate can be just as terrifying as being dumped, and create similar feelings of loneliness. In this case, playing solo is a broken state. > 7. The Unworthy. Find ways for these players to learn the skills they need in a solo environment, where they can fail without the social stigma of failure. > 8. Vacationer. The player wants to play the game he loves to escape his obligations. Sometimes this includes his in-game obligations. > 9. The Commitment-phobic. Many players like the idea of group activities like raids, but are leery of huge timesinks, potential drama, or making a commitment to 25 other people who turn out to be idiots. > 10. The Garbo. Some people just want to be left alone. It is important to remember there’s a clear difference between being alone and being lonely. > > They say getting into player corp early, engaging in fleet roams, interacting with other players is good for retention. Solo players are considered less engaged. And though EVE always was and still is great for solo, CCP seems to have pivoted towards group gameplay design lately. And they should keep solo players in mind. ---
**Author:** ![State\_Soldier\_1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/state_soldier_1/32/336854_2.png) [@State\_Soldier\_1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/State_Soldier_1)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/604 "2021-04-27T17:53:30Z")
So your announcing that there will be another announcement in the near future. Meanwhile look at this spreadsheet on how were going to overcomplicate everything industry. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/605 "2021-04-27T18:03:39Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > If you make it a “must” you only retain 15% of people who score highest on extroversion. 15% of introverts AND 65% who deviate and diverse might have a problem with “must”. This is just baseless hurfadurf. Players don’t need a Z-Score of 2-3 in order to join corporations. That’s just a silly implication. Most people - _including introverts_ - enjoy playing with other people than by themselves. Also it’s pretty silly of you to try mapping the general population onto EVE Online. EVE Online is an **mmog** - a massively _multiplayer_ online game. You don’t think that has a selection effect? ---
**Author:** ![Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vortigern_vitalis/32/455600_2.png) [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vortigern_Vitalis)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/606 "2021-04-27T19:12:30Z")
That list of Ten Types misses out the solo player like myself - one who does not trust the internet and people on it whom I do not know. I avoided Eve for about eight years precisely because it was claimed that you could not play it solo. I then found a few articles which took issue with that, gave it a try, and have stuck with it. The things that risk my retention the most are the idiotic moves by CCP to force group play. One day they will probably go too far, and I will walk. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 7:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/607 "2021-04-27T19:40:36Z")
Calculating risks is a major part of EVE Online. Trusting people is a calculated risk. It sounds like you want the rewards but not the risks… ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/608 "2021-04-27T19:57:01Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > Trusting people is a calculated risk. Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vortigern_vitalis/32/455600_2.png) [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vortigern_Vitalis)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/609 "2021-04-27T19:57:02Z")
No, it is simply that I do not wish to engage with arrogant, pseudo intellectual narcissists such as you. Posting on this forum is risk enough, thank you. I should also observe that I did not ask for your opinion, and was addressing @Siegfried_Tahl. Do not bother replying, as I shall ignore you, the chess-playing pigeon. Cheerio. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/610 "2021-04-27T20:00:21Z")
You should observe that this is a public forum, and people will reply to who they please. Stay mad. ---
**Author:** ![Kysandra\_Khalifa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kysandra_khalifa/32/233244_2.png) [@Kysandra\_Khalifa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kysandra_Khalifa)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/611 "2021-04-27T20:26:20Z")
Well done CCP, for killing the game. If I am incorrect, please tell me otherwise: Reactions can only be done on Lowsec?? And only in a Citadel?? Well done then, on killing a lot of HighSec manufacturing, through your badly thought out inclusion of reactions in everything. Btw, I am not being sarcastic at all. Good play CCP, kill the markets. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Daemons](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_daemons/32/264644_2.png) [@Max\_Daemons](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Daemons)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/612 "2021-04-27T21:24:17Z")
Nice, CCP! You killed this game for big number of players. Cool idea. Thank you very much! ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/613 "2021-04-27T21:55:30Z")
> [@Max\_Daemons](#): > > Nice, CCP! You killed this game for big number of players. The only thing that really changed for the “worse” was battleships, capitals, mining barges, and indies. Literally every other ship type just got cheaper and easier to produce. So if “the game” for you was only building BS or caps then IDK what to say except: boy, bye. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 10:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/614 "2021-04-27T22:10:29Z")
Speaking as a subcap solo player who likes building subcaps, this is looking pretty good to me. ---
**Author:** ![Edmorte\_Fehrnah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/edmorte_fehrnah/32/251868_2.png) [@Edmorte\_Fehrnah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Edmorte_Fehrnah)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 10:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/615 "2021-04-27T22:21:15Z")
Bro no poors kay? Want to fly cool stuff, buy some PLEX. ---
**Author:** ![wild\_killbillsatan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wild_killbillsatan/32/266823_2.png) [@wild\_killbillsatan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/wild_killbillsatan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 10:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/616 "2021-04-27T22:32:06Z")
sounds good. I’ll skip all this scarcity phase and just come back when that “Age of plenty” arrives. I’m not a masochist and I don’t trust their roadmap either. ---
**Author:** ![Hidden\_Markov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hidden_markov/32/260260_2.png) [@Hidden\_Markov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hidden_Markov)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 10:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/617 "2021-04-27T22:55:51Z")
I’d agree tot that. But that boat sailed sadly when they nerfed ecm. It would ahve been the best time to say yeah…we’ve broken jams lets fix this boat. That burst bonus was/is only good for one thing. One pilot had a write up on scorpion I tried as well many moons ago. Its fun, but very niche. YOu fly/warp the scorp in, burst, break locks, warp out. Rinse, lather repeat till you get blown up or by some miracle other side gets killed off by your peeps basically. Good for lols but not exactly a top 10 fleet doctrine option many would adopt. ---
**Author:** ![ZhaoMin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhaomin/32/350517_2.png) [@ZhaoMin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ZhaoMin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 12:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/618 "2021-04-28T00:59:37Z")
Just want to say that as a person who is interested in survival crafting / base building / city building and collecting loots. The industry change really isn’t providing anything exciting. I would personally prefer that rationally, human and society tend to survive by what they have at hand, and craft more (innovation) out of natural resources available to them AFTER they have chose a place to settle. Instead, we’re now forced into being nomads and travelling merchants, chasing after resources that we didn’t needed before to build exactly the same things (no actual stat improvements apart from name gimmicks) The USA don’t lose control of their oil fields…but the 4 Empires of New Eden don’t even have secure control over many of their essential ship building resources. Makes you wonder who runs those governments in their universe, they don’t even have Sun Tzu equivalent person to give them sound advise. Judging from what ppl say about they are (almost being forced to) chasing around for resources and moving around mad like nomads…I’ve come to the conclusion that the Eve sandbox is running out of sand…and this Industry change is not helping to replenish the sand…and quite the contrary, taking even more from it. just my 2c ---
**Author:** ![zazzmatazz\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zazzmatazz_xu/32/451037_2.png) [@zazzmatazz\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zazzmatazz_Xu)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 1:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/619 "2021-04-28T01:02:54Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > Player interaction fosters retention Not really, by thinning out the ecosystem the game is more of a managed wildlife preserve, so now it will be an echo chamber, the same dreary corporations doing the same things over and over again while the DEVS are the park managers trying to chain a food animal to a post so that the predators can get the feeling of a hunt but really living in a box and pacing. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303.md?page=29) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303.md?page=31)