# A significant update to Industry **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [March 26, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303 "2021-03-26T15:00:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Adunh\_Slavy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/adunh_slavy/32/265310_2.png) [@Adunh\_Slavy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Adunh_Slavy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/831 "2021-05-06T18:03:39Z")
> [@Dunk\_Dinkle](#): > > I, Pencil is a polemic about the importance of innovation and the risks of centralized control. It also makes clear that no one person can make a pencil on their own, much less a T2 ship. ---
**Author:** ![Ranar\_Linyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranar_linyne/32/378478_2.png) [@Ranar\_Linyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranar_Linyne)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/832 "2021-05-06T18:31:53Z")
Nobody talking about t2 in here. Were talking about pirate/faction. Which went from just minerals like it has been for 18 years to minerals, pi, goo reactions, and gas. Pencils I could make last week suddenly require exotic materials you need specific expensive infrastructure to obtain. But its the same pencil. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/833 "2021-05-06T18:34:10Z")
> [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > Which went from just minerals like it has been for 18 years to minerals, pi, goo reactions, and gas. Nope. It went from minerals to minerals + new items. That those items needs PI, does not mean you need PI to do faction. That’s the big mistake in your explanations. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/834 "2021-05-06T18:34:27Z")
> [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > Which went from just minerals like it has been for 18 years Ok and? That doesn’t mean anything. Change happens for various reasons in an MMO. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Adunh\_Slavy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/adunh_slavy/32/265310_2.png) [@Adunh\_Slavy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Adunh_Slavy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/835 "2021-05-06T18:44:44Z")
> [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > Nobody talking about t2 in here. Same argument applies ---
**Author:** ![ntopios](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ntopios/32/253890_2.png) [@ntopios](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ntopios)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 6:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/836 "2021-05-06T18:45:08Z")
lol u are still here . just w8 and see the next patch that is going to drop … If u are so pissed with this one lol ---
**Author:** ![Ranar\_Linyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranar_linyne/32/378478_2.png) [@Ranar\_Linyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranar_Linyne)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/837 "2021-05-06T19:05:14Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > those items needs PI, does not mean you need PI Either I get it in those items, which contain pi, or I do the pi. Either way pi is a requirement when it previously wasn’t. The hull requires goo reactions, pi, and gas. Thats regardless of who is doing what portion of it. Perhaps you know a way to build items that require pi without the pi? You need pi to do faction builds even if it isn’t you thats doing it. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Change happens for various reasons Yeah, it does. Why this? What problem is being addressed? Why does this solve it? I’ve asked these questions before and nobody has an answer other than “her der because ccp”. The stated goal was to reduce capital proliferation, but this clearly isn’t relevant to that in the least. So again I ask the same damn questions. I fully expect the same bullshìt answers. > [@Adunh\_Slavy](#): > > Same argument applies It would, except that I could never build the t2 pencil by myself. I could do a lot of it, but buying just the stuff I couldn’t do ran the cost beyond market value for the hulls. In this case I could crank these pencils out all day. Now I can’t do it at all, and I didnt do anything to cause that. > [@ntopios](#): > > just w8 and see the next patch Why don’t you share with the class then? ---
**Author:** ![Adunh\_Slavy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/adunh_slavy/32/265310_2.png) [@Adunh\_Slavy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Adunh_Slavy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/838 "2021-05-06T19:08:21Z")
> [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > Now I can’t do it at all, and I didnt do anything to cause that. I do have empathy for your position, yet also feel these changes, to make production more multi-layerd and require more inputs, is over all a good thing for the Eve economy. Find a way to adapt and profit from it. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 7:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/839 "2021-05-06T19:17:50Z")
> [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > Either way pi is a requirement when it previously wasn’t. Still, nope. You can repeat that you need the item as long as you want, it’s still wrong. There is no PI item requirement in the BPC. ---
**Author:** ![Ranar\_Linyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranar_linyne/32/378478_2.png) [@Ranar\_Linyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranar_Linyne)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/840 "2021-05-06T19:23:29Z")
Oh… you mean if you ignore the build tree and only look at finished products that, in fact, DO require pi. Smh ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/841 "2021-05-06T20:08:12Z")
> [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > Yeah, it does. Why this? What problem is being addressed? Why does this solve it? I’ve asked these questions before and nobody has an answer other than Other than the whole list of bullet points CCP put at the top of the dev blog you mean? If you aren’t going to engage in basic reading I really don’t know what to say about your argument. > [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > Oh… you mean if you ignore the build tree Which can be done. You are not required to engage in PI. You can buy it on the market. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 8:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/842 "2021-05-06T20:53:52Z")
> [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > Oh… you mean if you ignore the build tree and only look at finished products that, in fact, DO require pi. Smh No, I mean stricto sensu. There is no PI item in the requirement of the BP. Just because you make the recursive requirement, does not talk about the actual requirement. Your affirmation, that you need for that BP, is just plainly wrong. And also, even if it was, would not consider it a problem. It’s a problem for you, because you feel entitled to produce it in autarky. But your ego problems are just… well, yours. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Ranar\_Linyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranar_linyne/32/378478_2.png) [@Ranar\_Linyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranar_Linyne)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/843 "2021-05-06T20:59:09Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > You are not required to engage in PI. That is true. You aren’t required to do it, but it is required. Someone has to do it. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Other than the whole list of bullet points I read it all, multiple times looking for a reason. It isn’t there. Nowhere did they state the problem with faction ships, or why this fixes it. Just that it is, followed by some meaningless talk about adding complexity to capital building. Why didn’t the original developers build it this way? Why hasn’t it been changed over the last nearly two decades? Is it just arbitrary?? Because thats the impression I get. I dont see any history of people bitching about the faction ship building process. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > You can buy it on the market. I’ve already covered that you, in fact, can not buy them on the market at this time. Further if it’s anything like t2 you will lose money building these ships just buying the non mineral mats. “Why don’t you build the stuff thats not listed in the market?” Because I don’t have moons and a refinery to react the shìt in. Thats a big portion of why they aren’t listed in the first place. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > produce it in autarky I want all of us to have the same ability that we’ve always had. That argument flatly does not apply here. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 9:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/844 "2021-05-06T21:18:35Z")
> [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > Further if it’s anything like t2 you will lose money building these ships just buying the non mineral mats. If this is true then the people selling at those prices are losing money selling T2 ships instead of the parts. So _Shrug_ > [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > I read it all, multiple times looking for a reason. It isn’t there Then read it again, there are lots of reasons they have made this change. All listed right there. You might not think this is the best answer to those reasons but CCP have provided plenty of reasons. > [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > I want all of us to have the same ability that we’ve always had. Tough luck. This is an MMO, abilities change. ---
**Author:** ![Ranar\_Linyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranar_linyne/32/378478_2.png) [@Ranar\_Linyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranar_Linyne)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/845 "2021-05-06T21:29:08Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > people selling at those prices are losing money selling T2 ships instead of the parts. Their process is end to end, they don’t count their time and anything they harvested themselves counts as free to them. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > there are lots of reasons I don’t see a single problem highlighted. Nevermind that if there were one this definitely wouldn’t be the solution. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > abilities change Usually for the better though. This is like monkeys throwing darts. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 9:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/846 "2021-05-06T21:42:12Z")
If you weren’t already sitting on a pile of unprofitable ships before this change, you probably couldn’t see the problem. Its solved several problems I had very nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/847 "2021-05-06T21:50:43Z")
> [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > they don’t count their time and anything they harvested themselves counts as free to them. Yeah, good for them. In the mean time sensible people will consider opportunity cost and market price of intermediate products with regards to profits. > [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > Usually for the better though This is for the better according to many peoples opinion. > [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > I don’t see a single problem highlighted. Then you can’t read, or are wilfully ignorant. I’m leaning towards wilful ignorance at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Deriger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deriger/32/452991_2.png) [@Deriger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deriger)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2021, 1:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/848 "2021-05-07T01:41:22Z")
The first Megathron I ever bought cost me 88 million. There is no reason a T1 battleship should cost 650 million. ---
**Author:** ![Ranar\_Linyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranar_linyne/32/378478_2.png) [@Ranar\_Linyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranar_Linyne)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2021, 4:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/849 "2021-05-07T04:35:29Z")
They probably gearing up to rmt faction and bs directly. Just guessing, but I wouldn’t be surprised at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Hidden\_Markov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hidden_markov/32/260260_2.png) [@Hidden\_Markov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hidden_Markov)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2021, 6:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/850 "2021-05-07T06:04:51Z")
Unless they are hiding some SOV changes deep…yeah…the tin foil works. Sov changes being something BC and below matter beyond canon fodder. Even if predicted cap suppression happens (big if, imo) I started in space poor BS heavy SOV ops in first home. Back then it was okay…tier 3 was not stupid priced. Which was good…heavy bs ops means heavy bs losses. 100 BS slow boating across 20+ systems…yeah this isn’t subtle or rapid. You could almost imagine the other side go…wtf man, can you get here any faster please. Move your butts…so we can kick your butt. We got lives man… lol [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303.md?page=40) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303.md?page=42)