# A significant update to Industry **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [March 26, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303 "2021-03-26T15:00:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 53
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1080 "2021-09-14T12:32:39Z")
Yep. you did shift them. > [@Xuixien](#): > > It was summer my dude. > [@Xuixien](#): > > Already rebounding. All I did was point out your error and you shifted them. > [@Xuixien](#): > > A statistically flat line. Congrats! > [@Xuixien](#): > > the fact that it has a stable playerbase - after 20 years - should not be overlooked. Twice ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1081 "2021-09-14T14:03:39Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > All I did was point out your error and you shifted them. The error in thinking is on your part. There is little value in comparing arbitrarily chosen points on a line graph. ---
**Author:** ![Ranar\_Linyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranar_linyne/32/378478_2.png) [@Ranar\_Linyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranar_Linyne)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1082 "2021-09-14T15:02:18Z")
Its about perspective. Zoom in enough and it looks flat, but it ain’t. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1083 "2021-09-14T15:51:11Z")
Arbitrarily chosen perspectives. I can arbitrarily choose 2004 and say we’re doing great. See how that works? ---
**Author:** ![Ranar\_Linyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranar_linyne/32/378478_2.png) [@Ranar\_Linyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranar_Linyne)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 3:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1084 "2021-09-14T15:56:41Z")
If you chose 2004 it wouldn’t be arbitrary… Changes like this that drive people out of certain economic niches, and out of the game for some, add up. Every pilot missing is one less producer, seller, target… They need to be drawing people in, not pushing them out. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1085 "2021-09-14T16:09:34Z")
> [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > If you chose 2004 it wouldn’t be arbitrary… It is. I just chose it to support a _narrative_, just like you guys are. Your perspective needs to be expansive, not myopic. I guess you missed my point. Your mind appears to be made up and not open to disconfirming evidence. Bad scientist is bad. ---
**Author:** ![Ranar\_Linyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranar_linyne/32/378478_2.png) [@Ranar\_Linyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranar_Linyne)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1086 "2021-09-14T16:20:58Z")
Dude, a five year span leading to the present is not arbitrary. It highlights a standing trend. Using 2004 is not arbitrary either, it’s intentionally deceptive. Arbitrary: based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1087 "2021-09-14T16:28:03Z")
> [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system. Right, exactly. Your guys personal whim to choose this time period or that time period to paint a picture of doom and gloom. Duurr ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1088 "2021-09-14T16:29:42Z")
I think the current number of players is better than too few, or even worse too many. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 11:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1089 "2021-09-14T23:59:42Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > Right, exactly. Your guys personal whim to choose this time period or that time period to paint a picture of doom and gloom. Duurr But choosing a certain period and stating “Already Rebounding” is ok? You chose a 5 month period to show a “summer break” and claimed average online was improving, yet looking at the numbers over 2 week periods the numbers are DOWN. You chose an inaccurate period to make a point and got called on it. Accept you were wrong and get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 2:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1090 "2021-09-15T02:26:54Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > But choosing a certain period and stating “Already Rebounding” is ok? You must have trouble following conversations, or you’re being dishonest. Kind of hard to assume good faith on your part, so I’m gonna go with “being dishonest”. I was responding to an arbitrarily selected portion of the PCU graph with more recent, disconfirming evidence. There’s nothing wrong with that; it was contextually relevant. Then the goalpost shifted to “5 months ago” an then you shifted it to “5 years ago”. Shift shift shift. Gotta hold up that _narrative_. You’re being dishonest and manipulating the data in a dishonest way. Shame on you. > [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > You chose a 5 month period to show a “summer break” No, I didn’t. That was the other guy. Stop lying. > [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > and claimed average online was improving It is _in relation to what I was responding to_. Be honest and keep things in context. > [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > yet looking at the numbers over 2 week periods the numbers are DOWN Arbitrarily selected portion to support a narrative. Yawn. First it was “5 months ago”, then it was “5 years ago”, and now it’s “look at this random 2 week period”. Jesus dude, just take your L with grace. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1091 "2021-09-15T02:38:54Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > There’s nothing wrong with that; it was contextually relevant. Ok. so the US has summers that last 5 months, so your original post about numbers rebounding based on your 5 month summer was accurate. But then for the month proceeding your 5 month summer, numbers actually dropped but I’m the one being dishonest. EveOffline is ONLY accurate when you use it. Got it. I’m dishonest because I used the same available information as you to show you were not right. Get over yourself, you got it wrong and got called out. Boo Hoo. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 7:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1092 "2021-09-15T07:07:22Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > Boo Hoo. What I dont understand is why if you dislike CCPs decisions so much you are so invested in wanting to improve their bank. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 10:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1093 "2021-09-15T10:53:17Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > Ok. so the US has summers that last 5 months lolwhat? No, my dude, no no no. _lmao_ Summer is **3 months long** , comprised of the months June, July, and August. Keep lying and twisting instead of taking your L with grace. ---
**Author:** ![Ranar\_Linyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranar_linyne/32/378478_2.png) [@Ranar\_Linyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranar_Linyne)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1094 "2021-09-15T19:07:04Z")
Derailed thread is derailed. Industry changes still bad. There, back on topic. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1095 "2021-09-15T22:08:28Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > Summer is **3 months long** , comprised of the months June, July, and August. So why then did you include May and September in your “It was Summer my dude”, “already rebounding” post? Your summer (my winter) shows 21k average, yet since then the average to date has dropped to 20k. Where is the rebound you stated? And I’m the one lying and twisting. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > What I dont understand is why if you dislike CCPs decisions so much you are so invested in wanting to improve their bank Not sure how pointing out a blatant posting error by [Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien) points to me not liking CCP decisions or shows I am invested in improving their bank. Seems to me you’re injecting your own narrative here. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 11:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1096 "2021-09-15T23:25:28Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > So why then did you include May and September in your “It was Summer my dude”, “already rebounding” post? For context and comparison. > [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > Your summer (my winter) shows 21k average, yet since then the average to date has dropped to 20k. Where is the rebound you stated? On the image I posted. > [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > And I’m the one lying and twisting. Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Quentin\_Schaefer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quentin_schaefer/32/471507_2.png) [@Quentin\_Schaefer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Quentin_Schaefer)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 11:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1097 "2021-09-15T23:29:02Z")
> [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > Derailed thread is derailed. > > Industry changes still bad. There, back on topic. And here I thought we were all back on topic. aww, shucks. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2021, 7:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1098 "2021-09-16T07:55:53Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > not liking CCP decisions Ypu have repeatedly stated your objections to their decisions on numerous topics, not least Scarcity and now Downtime asteroid regeneration. Now you are arguing that the player numbers are dying. Whats wrong with you that you seem to have forgotten these things because you want an argument? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Mawedom](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/count_mawedom/32/502791_2.png) [@Count\_Mawedom](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Count_Mawedom)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2021, 5:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1099 "2021-09-16T17:04:40Z")
Hello, I’m certainly not the first player to pass this on to you, but having been a titan producer before the industry changes, I had fun calculating the basic resource requirements for producing an Avatar today. Here is what I found: Isogen 140342600 Megacyte 3710580 Mexallon 492442200 Morphite 15000 Nocxium 16235600 Pyerite 1731447200 Tritanium 493820000 Zydrine 7205155 Helium Fuel Block 154075 Hydrogen Fuel Block 156745 Nitrogen Fuel Block 155595 Oxygen Fuel Block 178390 Atmospheric Gases 16015500 Cadmium 21100 Caesium 14800 Dysprosium 6300 Evaporite Deposits 5350100 Hydrocarbon 16018900 Mercury 68800 Neodymium 6300 Platinum 75900 Promethium 68800 Silicates 5353500 Technetium 8400 Thulium 6300 Tungsten 67500 Vanadium 8600 Fullerite- C28 488800 Fullerite-C32 468800 Fullerite-C50 211800 Fullerite-C60 311900 Fullerite-C70 487100 Fullerite-C72 266500 Fullerite-C84 420200 Fullerite-C320 156300 Fullerite-C540 175000 Bacteria 400000 Biocells 5000 Broadcast Node 5580 Chiral Structure 1000000 Gel-Matrix Biopaste 10000 Hermetic Membranes 3500 Integrity Response Drones 10448 Miniature Electronics 20000 Nanite 5000 Nano-Factory 5560 Organic Mortar Applicators 4000 Oxygen 500000 Protein 200000 Recursive Computing Module 750 Self-Harmonizing Power Core 8600 Sterile Conduits 2224 Synthetic Synapses 4000 Test Cultures 5000 Water 25375000 Wetware Mainframe 5936 Amber Mykoserocin 3200 Azure Mykoserocin 3200 Celadon Mykoserocin 3200 Golden Mykoserocin 3200 Lime Cytoserocin 500 Lime Mykoserocin 43200 Malachite Cytoserocin 500 Malachite Mykoserocin 43200 Vermillion Mykoserocin 3200 Viridian Mykoserocin 3200 AG-Composite Molecular Condenser 80 AV-Composite Molecular Condenser 80 Counter-Subversion Sensor Array 10 CV-Composite Molecular Condenser 80 Enhanced Electro-Neural Signaller 10 Isotropic Deposition Guide 750 LM-Composite Molecular Condenser 1130 Meta-molecular Combiner 10 Nano Regulation Gate 25 Nanoscale Filter Plate 10 Based on the market, that’s 750b for an Avatar (and there aren’t enough resources on the market). Is this really what CCP wants? 🙂 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303.md?page=52) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303.md?page=54)