# A significant update to Industry **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [March 26, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303 "2021-03-26T15:00:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 57
**Author:** ![Dudumarus\_DTTUH](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dudumarus_dttuh/32/498894_2.png) [@Dudumarus\_DTTUH](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dudumarus_DTTUH)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1160 "2021-11-21T19:22:19Z")
ok, thx make sens ---
**Author:** ![MrNoodless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mrnoodless/32/297382_2.png) [@MrNoodless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MrNoodless)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 10:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1161 "2021-11-25T10:29:07Z")
Hope im in the right place , But why is it that when im building a JF now that i need another Capital temp core ? while im allready using one in the freighter i am “upgrading”? seems a bit weird that you need 2 while a carrier has 1 and a JF isnt even a combat ship? Greetings MrNoodless ---
**Author:** ![ntopios](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ntopios/32/253890_2.png) [@ntopios](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ntopios)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 11:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1162 "2021-11-25T11:13:44Z")
kenneth felt at his best delivering our beloved patch .and do not ask that kind of question cause the reply s will be adapt or die suck it etch ---
**Author:** ![Ranar\_Linyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranar_linyne/32/378478_2.png) [@Ranar\_Linyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranar_Linyne)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1163 "2021-11-26T18:21:51Z")
> [@MrNoodless](#): > > seems a bit weird that you need 2 while a carrier has 1 That would be logical. I suspect ccp is saying that we are so bad at industry that we break all those source parts from the original hull during upgrade. Which brings me to the question "why do I need the t1 hull if have to remake parts that it already contains? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 11:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1164 "2021-11-26T23:44:24Z")
> [@MrNoodless](#): > > seems a bit weird that you need 2 while a carrier has 1 and a JF isnt even a combat ship? Jump Freighters are the only T2 capital ships in the game. It’s not that strange they take an extra capital temperature core to build. Be glad it isn’t 15, like supercarriers. ---
**Author:** ![Ranar\_Linyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranar_linyne/32/378478_2.png) [@Ranar\_Linyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranar_Linyne)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 12:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1165 "2021-12-20T00:21:36Z")
Shìt change is still shìt ---
**Author:** ![Elwha\_Lynx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elwha_lynx/32/246048_2.png) [@Elwha\_Lynx](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elwha_Lynx)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1166 "2022-01-15T15:58:00Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > So you believe having 14k less average daily logins than 5 years ago is ok? Could be, given that’s likely not far off from either bots or cloaking campers, both of which were doing tremendous damage to active players. Game is going pretty well now and the recent indy changes need a few more months to pan out–heck miners are still converting their fleets over. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 4:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1167 "2022-01-19T04:58:26Z")
> [@Elwha\_Lynx](#): > > bots or cloaking campers, both of which were doing tremendous damage to active players Bots are of course bad oh and are still around. Cloaky campers? Not sure what damage they did, unless you mean making nulbears even safer by removing them. The game had cloaky campers for many many years and funnily enough the had a far higher PCU than it does now. > [@Elwha\_Lynx](#): > > miners are still converting their fleets over. No they aren’t, for the most part nothing has changed. If the recent indy changes had done anything the PCU would be going up as those who mined on a large scale needed more alts. Quite simply the guys who multiboxed Rorquals, which was the ONLY problem with mining, until CCP decided to “fix it”, are sitting it out waiting. US winter, normally when the PCU is it’s highest, is nearly over. When it is and the PCU goes back to normal you’ll likely see a sub 20K per day PCU again. CCP turned Eve into easy mode with FozzieSov, Citadels and Rorquals. Now they are trying (poorly) to fix previous mistakes without addressing the real problems those mistakes have left in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Ranar\_Linyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranar_linyne/32/378478_2.png) [@Ranar\_Linyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranar_Linyne)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 4:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1168 "2022-01-19T16:02:34Z")
> [@Elwha\_Lynx](#): > > Game is going pretty well It’s interesting that you think that. What with the astronomical prices of faction subs, and everything else really. Upending more than a decade of market stability was definitely good. Right? That makes things better for everyone right? The only thing they did that needed to be done was shrink rocks so rorqs can’t graze endlessly bloating the mineral stores. Everything else was unnecessary, overkill, and extremely poorly planned. > [@Elwha\_Lynx](#): > > doing tremendous damage to active players That’s ccp’s job now apparently, and they’re killing it > [@Elwha\_Lynx](#): > > miners are Not mining, according to the latest data. Probably the final edition of said data too since it doesn’t back up ccps rhetoric and they’ve announced they’re replacing it. ---
**Author:** ![PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pixywarrior_ellecon/32/456340_2.png) [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/PixyWarrior_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1169 "2022-01-19T16:13:36Z")
> [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > What with the astronomical prices of faction subs, and everything else really. Faction subs, specifically faction battleships were way to cheap to begin with. Having entire fleets of faction battleships needed to cost a bit more. Is it balanced now with their current price? No, but CCP has come out and said they will be changing BS soon. > [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > The only thing they did that needed to be done was shrink rocks so rorqs can’t graze endlessly bloating the mineral stores. Everything else was unnecessary, overkill, and extremely poorly planned. They didn’t shrink rocks. They are now 2x as big. However, waste/residue has been added and the rorqual took a 200% mining yield nerf (from 500 to 300) > [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > Not mining, according to the latest data. Probably the final edition of said data too since it doesn’t back up ccps rhetoric and they’ve announced they’re replacing it. CCP has come out and stated that the MER for Nov/Dec is wrong and that mining is up. The MER doesnt give us the full picture and is just based on value, not m3. So it will always be skewed based on the market until CCP gives us m3 mined. ---
**Author:** ![Ranar\_Linyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranar_linyne/32/378478_2.png) [@Ranar\_Linyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranar_Linyne)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 5:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1170 "2022-01-19T17:07:24Z")
> [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](#): > > They didn’t shrink rocks. They are now 2x as big. They most certainly did. Thats what parked all the rorqs in hangars. Not a single rock worth seiging on. They are now 2x the shrunken size. Someone has a short memory. > [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](#): > > CCP has come out and stated that the MER for Nov/Dec is wrong and that mining is up. And you believe them? I got a bridge to sell you. > [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](#): > > Faction subs, specifically faction battleships were way to cheap to begin with. Your opinion is noted. Price a nightmare. Now look at build cost. Its borked, and its been borked since they added pi, gas, goo, reactions that require a low/null refinery to the process. You can thank the lp farmers for keeping the prices as low as they are. You’re welcome. Secondarily, they should be cheap enough that they get used by normal pilots that aren’t space rich slumlords. They’re subs, they should be used often. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1171 "2022-01-19T17:12:10Z")
> [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > And you believe them? I got a bridge to sell you. Since they are the one making it, I rather believe them than you. ---
**Author:** ![PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pixywarrior_ellecon/32/456340_2.png) [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/PixyWarrior_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1172 "2022-01-19T17:16:43Z")
> [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > They most certainly did. Thats what parked all the rorqs in hangars. Not a single rock worth seiging on. They are now 2x the shrunken size. Someone has a short memory. Rocks are definitely doubled in size. Our moons now pull upwards of 50mil m3 worth of ore compared to 25mil m3 and we did not change the cycle time. Ice blocks now have 200-300 blocks instead of 50-150, and regular belts are also increased in size. However, regular belts will shrink over time if they are consistently mined out. But > [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > And you believe them? I got a bridge to sell you. I trust CCP more than you, especially since they have all the data and we don’t. It is a game, they are the devs and they don’t have to release every bit of information to us. The MER has always been borked. They have come out and even stated that it is about time to basically rewrite how the MER is generated. > [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > Price a nightmare. Now look at build cost. Its borked, and its been borked since they added pi, gas, goo, reactions that require a low/null refinery to the process. You can thank the lp farmers for keeping the prices as low as they are. You’re welcome I am aware, yes they are a bit higher than they should be but a less than billion isk faction battleship is dumb. They’re better than standard hulls and should be more expensive as such. Again, CCP has come out and said they will get a buff. > [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > Secondarily, they should be cheap enough that they get used by normal pilots that aren’t space rich slumlords. They’re subs, they should be used often Correct they are subs and they should be used, but they are faction. They are not the standard and should be held in higher regards. They should be more prized and more difficult to acquire than a standard t1 hull. ---
**Author:** ![Ranar\_Linyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranar_linyne/32/378478_2.png) [@Ranar\_Linyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranar_Linyne)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 5:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1173 "2022-01-19T17:32:45Z")
> [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](#): > > more difficult to acquire than a standard t1 hull. They always were. The control mechanism was the bpc, and instead of tweaking it they decided to void their collective bowels into this. This which gatekeeps production to those with infrastructure in low and null. None of this was necessary, and it has been a verifiable disaster since implemented. > [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](#): > > they have all the data and we don’t. Well, be happy because now they’re not going to share it with us anymore. Presumably because the mer was right and they dont like they we see that. ---
**Author:** ![PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pixywarrior_ellecon/32/456340_2.png) [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/PixyWarrior_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 5:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1174 "2022-01-19T17:37:23Z")
> [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > They always were. The control mechanism was the bpc, and instead of tweaking it they decided to void their collective bowels into this. This which gatekeeps production to those with infrastructure in low and null. None of this was necessary, and it has been a verifiable disaster since implemented. BPCs were on the market by the hundreds and the ships themselves were as well. Faction BS were extremely easy to acquire and still are. Why do you think there were fleets of Macherials/Nightmares? > [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > Well, be happy because now they’re not going to share it with us anymore. Presumably because the mer was right and they dont like they we see that. MER wasn’t correct. For one my group, small as we are, saw a massive increase in mining. I know we aren’t the only ones either. Sure rorqual mining dropped, by barge/exhumer increased significantly ---
**Author:** ![Ranar\_Linyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranar_linyne/32/378478_2.png) [@Ranar\_Linyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranar_Linyne)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1175 "2022-01-19T18:13:55Z")
> [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](#): > > rorqual mining Has been near 0 since they initially shrunk the rocks. Orcas aren’t mining, at all, anymore. Barge mining is still as tedious and risky as it ever was, but now with the added benefit of not being able to fit tackle and tank. A swing and a miss does not force your attacker to pay anymore. > [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](#): > > MER wasn’t correct. For one my group, small as we are The mer is for the whole game. It is, and always has been, a raw numerical extraction from the game. That is why they dont like it. They are unable to manipulate it. It was not wrong. Your experience is admittedly a small portion of the game. Is it so far fetched to believe that you have no idea the impact it has outside of your circle? I think that’s exactly what’s happening here. ---
**Author:** ![PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pixywarrior_ellecon/32/456340_2.png) [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/PixyWarrior_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 6:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1176 "2022-01-19T18:23:04Z")
> [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > Has been near 0 since they initially shrunk the rocks. Orcas aren’t mining, at all, anymore. Barge mining is still as tedious and risky as it ever was, but now with the added benefit of not being able to fit tackle and tank. A swing and a miss does not force your attacker to pay anymore. Again, rocks have not shrunk. I don’t know if anomaly rocks doubled, but no rock was shrunk. Orcas still mine all the freakin time. Not sure why you think that. All barges gained EHP so risk has gone down and Hulks/Mackinaws are actually used in lowsec now. Seen lots of them. > [@Ranar\_Linyne](#): > > The mer is for the whole game. It is, and always has been, a raw numerical extraction from the game. That is why they dont like it. They are unable to manipulate it. It was not wrong. The MER is wrong for Nov/Dec. The new mining update borked it and CCP stated that, along with CSM members. ---
**Author:** ![Ranar\_Linyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranar_linyne/32/378478_2.png) [@Ranar\_Linyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranar_Linyne)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 6:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1177 "2022-01-19T18:32:13Z")
> [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](#): > > Again, rocks have not shrunk. Dude… rocks were absolutely GUTTED back towards the begginging of scarcity. Rocks that formerly had 330k/m3 shrunk to 3-5k m3. They doubled that to get you where they are now, then added waste. When I tell you the rorqs quit undocking that day im hardly exaggerating. You never saw a rorq in a belt that wasn’t from a moon pull anymore. The rocks were too small to last a single siege cycle. It killed them outright. That one change fixed everything. Then they did all this ■■■■■■■■, because reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Ranar\_Linyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranar_linyne/32/378478_2.png) [@Ranar\_Linyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranar_Linyne)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1178 "2022-01-19T19:12:44Z")
> [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](#): > > BPCs were on the market by the hundreds and the ships themselves were as well. Faction BS were extremely easy to acquire and still are. Why do you think there were fleets of Macherials/Nightmares? Let me break this into logical chunks. BPCs were on the market. Yes they were and they still are, but all the value has been stripped from them by this industry change. The ships were too but their prices were based on the standard supply/demand equation. The supply portion being the bpc itself. Which held most of the value of the ship at that time. This kept prices mostly stable for the last decade. Now their prices are being artificially suppressed by people farming for lp to buy finished hulls because building them is actually 1980’s vintage incurable AIDS. If we had to rely on building the hulls they would be even more expensive than they are now. Again, you’re welcome. Why do I think there were nightmare/mach fleets? Because they brought the best value to the battlefield. They were the most effective in the required role per isk. Nevermind that they cost three times what a t1 battleship did then. They still delivered on the value. They were worth their already inflated price. Now they are not. Especially considering t1 battleships got hit with this same bùllshit. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303/1179 "2022-01-19T19:51:45Z")
> [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](#): > > Again, rocks have not shrunk. You’re talking past the people you’re conversing with. Rocks went through TWO (2!) changes: `Pre-Scarcity-> Scarcity -> Now` You are focused from `Scarcity -> Now` which is indeed `2x`. However, `Normal -> Scarcity` was something like `0.05x`. Combined, that’s only `0.1x`. That’s just rock size, and not at all including belts that were outright removed from the game. Thus, comparing `Pre-Scarcity` to `Now` things are still depressed by `0.1x` and belts are still entirely gone. Simply comparing `Scarcity` to `Now` and saying “but its `2x`” is just a rote display of pedantry/semantics and is forgetting the lived memory of players who were playing during the ages past. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303.md?page=56) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-significant-update-to-industry/302303.md?page=58)