# A small improvement to power diagnostics **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [November 18, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-small-improvement-to-power-diagnostics/428461 "2023-11-18T20:30:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 4:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-small-improvement-to-power-diagnostics/428461/21 "2023-11-20T16:32:31Z")
> [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > then you didnt even have a valid reason ! Keeping the lore consistent isn’t a valid reason? > [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > its just an opinion because YOU want to have it ! I actually don’t care about the extra bonus from a gameplay stand point (this isn’t my thread.) The only reason I’m continuing to even post here is because you took issue with my claim that adding the bonus would make sense because cap batteries also have it. > [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > cap batteries and power diagnostics dont do the same things So… while your comment is technically true, you also need to be aware that shield and capacitor share a relationship. This is why there are many modules that increase one at the expense of the other. I’m not sure if it’s explicitly stated in the lore, but what appears to be happening is the PEG (power enhanced generator) that produces power is creating a field that operates as a shield around the vessel. Lore wise, this would be why ships that armor tank also have shields. So why is this relevant to our discussion? Effectively, 4 of the power diagnostic systems bonuses are 1 bonus split into 4. And because it adds to total amount of capacitor, it makes sense, lore wise, why it would also harden that capacitor against cap warfare (just like a cap battery does.) Of all the bonuses the module gives, it’s actually more weird that it also provides power grid. In terms of lore consistency. Obviously that can be kind of hand waved away, but the point still stands. > [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > you didnt even said why this would be an improvement ! As I said before, it’s an argument from a lore perspective. It doesn’t take into account game play balance. But I’ll take a shot at it. We have a mid slot module that provides cap hardening (cap battery,) so having a low slot that has a similar effect could be useful for people who are doing pve against rats that neutralize. ---
**Author:** ![Vuhdo\_Rin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vuhdo_rin/32/378868_2.png) [@Vuhdo\_Rin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vuhdo_Rin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 4:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-small-improvement-to-power-diagnostics/428461/22 "2023-11-20T16:46:29Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Keeping the lore consistent isn’t a valid reason? no, because not everything that is good as lore is also good for game balance ! and btw … i dont see a valid lore reason for this ! > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > adding the bonus would make sense because cap batteries also have it. you still didnt realize that cap batteries have a way different usage as a power diagnostics … → your post doesnt make sense ! > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > So… while your comment is technically true, you also need to be aware that shield and capacitor share a relationship. thats why it has the stats it has ! and btw … its still harden the capacitor because it adds more capacitor and more capacitor recharge ! but there is no reason why it should have the capacitor warfare bonus aswell ! would be overpowered in this combination ! > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > As I said before, it’s an argument from a lore perspective. It doesn’t take into account game play balance. then you said it by yourself that you dont have a valid reason ! because game balance should be always the first argument ! > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > so having a low slot that has a similar effect could be useful for people who are doing pve against rats that neutralize. why not simply use a cap battery ? and i still dont see any reason why this is an improvement ! ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 5:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-small-improvement-to-power-diagnostics/428461/23 "2023-11-20T17:01:02Z")
> [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > why not simply use a cap battery You might not have midslots available. > [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > would be overpowered in this combination Then nerf the amount of stats the module provides. When I said that before, you said it would be useless. It can’t be both overpowered and useless at the same time. > [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > > > Keeping the lore consistent isn’t a valid reason? > > no, because not everything that is good as lore is also good for game balance ! and btw … i dont see a valid lore reason for this ! You’re silly. If you’re not interested in keeping the lore consistent (ie: being immersed in the game) why bother playing eve at all? why not play some crappy text based game? You do it because the graphics help immerse you into the fantasy of being a space pixel captain. Keeping the lore consistent does the same thing. That said, I also agree that making sure gameplay isn’t harmed by game design decisions is important, but that’s not really a factor here. All ccp would have to do is tune the numbers to make sure the module is balanced. > [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > ts still harden the capacitor because it adds more capacitor and more capacitor recharge So you agree with me that it makes sense thematically, your only issue is the actual numbers on the module. I already said ccp could nerf the other numbers on the module to make room for it. ---
**Author:** ![Vuhdo\_Rin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vuhdo_rin/32/378868_2.png) [@Vuhdo\_Rin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vuhdo_Rin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-small-improvement-to-power-diagnostics/428461/24 "2023-11-20T17:09:39Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > You might not have midslots available. then it was your chioce ! if i fit a PvE ship then i alwys can fit atleast 1 cap battery if i want it ! > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Then nerf the amount of stats the module provides. When I said that before, you said it would be useless. It can’t be both overpowered and useless at the same time. overpowered if you add a 6th bonus ! useless if you reduce the other stats ! why should i use this item if i dont even get the ammount i got before ? btw … you still didnt bring a valid reason xD wonder why you dont understand it > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > You’re silly. If you’re not interested in keeping the lore consistent (ie: being immersed in the game) why bother playing eve at all? why not play some crappy text based game? You do it because the graphics help immerse you into the fantasy of being a space pixel captain. Keeping the lore consistent does the same thing. > > That said, I also agree that making sure gameplay isn’t harmed by game design decisions is important, but that’s not really a factor here. All ccp would have to do is tune the numbers to make sure the module is balanced. oh now you start insulting me 😉 nice btw … most of the eve player dont care about the lore ! they want to play this game ! eve online has no real story so lore is only a nice information ! Lore is always way less important then game balance ! yes, if you have a story then its way important then in a PvP game where your goal is to shoot other ppl … you dont need lore to shoot other ppl ! > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > So you agree with me that it makes sense thematically, your only issue is the actual numbers on the module. I already said ccp could nerf the other numbers on the module to make room for it. no i disgree with you xD it wouldnt have any improvement … you would change a whole game balance with this ! i just said it works as you want right now … it hardens the cap ! but adding a new bonu for a moule doesnt make sense because this would … i said it few time for now … youre not able to understand why its a stupid idea and no … nerf other stats because YOU want to add another is no reason ! its a stupid opinion ! ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-small-improvement-to-power-diagnostics/428461/25 "2023-11-20T17:39:11Z")
> [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > useless if you reduce the other stats ! why should i use this item if i dont even get the ammount i got before ? > [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > you would change a whole game balance with this This is why I suggested it should probably be a new module rather than changing the existing one (and potentially adding scripts to it.) If ccp were to just add on the 6th bonus to the existing module, then there’s no reason to create a new module. > [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > if i fit a PvE ship then i alwys can fit atleast 1 cap battery if i want it There isn’t always room for it. And offloading the ability to a low slot would open up more fitting possibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Vuhdo\_Rin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vuhdo_rin/32/378868_2.png) [@Vuhdo\_Rin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vuhdo_Rin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-small-improvement-to-power-diagnostics/428461/26 "2023-11-20T17:44:12Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > This is why I suggested it should probably be a new module rather than changing the existing one you still change the whole balance of capacitor and capacitor warfare ! or nothing happens because your “new” module is worthless because a cap battery is always way better and low slot modules like dmg mods, tank mods, nanofibre ore something else will be the better choice ! still not a good item ! > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > There isn’t always room for it. And offloading the ability to a low slot would open up more fitting possibilities. there is always room in PvE ships xD > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > And offloading the ability to a low slot would open up more fitting possibilities. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > And offloading the ability to a low slot would open up more fitting possibilities. and kill the whole balance of capacitor and capacitor warfare ! ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-small-improvement-to-power-diagnostics/428461/27 "2023-11-20T18:19:56Z")
> [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > and kill the whole balance of capacitor and capacitor warfare ! How? Certainly if you way over tune the module what you say could happen, but once again, that’s just a matter of numbers. You said it yourself that there are many other good modules to put in the low slots. A player who tries to abuse the module by using too many of them will lose out in other areas. > [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > there is always room in PvE ships Shield tank nano zealot, that also needs to harden its cap? You really want to use up one of it’s mid slots that would be better off fitting resist modules or extenders along with the obligatory prop module? A shield thorax is in a similar situation even though it has an extra midslot. The suggested module could open up many new fitting possibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Vuhdo\_Rin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vuhdo_rin/32/378868_2.png) [@Vuhdo\_Rin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vuhdo_Rin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-small-improvement-to-power-diagnostics/428461/28 "2023-11-20T18:26:59Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > How? think about it ! maybe you get the answer if you do so ! > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Shield tank nano zealot, that also needs to harden its cap? xD it need to harden its cap the same as a armor tanked nano sabre ! if you need a cap battery when you are in a situation where you can fly a shield thorax or a shield tank nano zealot … maybe you need to lern how to play 😉 > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > The suggested module could open up many new fitting possibilities. it only brings unbalance to the cap ! nothing more … ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 6:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-small-improvement-to-power-diagnostics/428461/29 "2023-11-20T18:42:25Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > I initially thought the scripts would mean the module would need to be active, but that’s not necessarily the case. Hu ? yes it is necessary. An active module affects the ship(actually, the targeted locations : can be an enemy eg weapons or web, can be your weapons eg GC, can be your ship eg MWD) for the duration of the cycle (actually, until the module is stopped). It has an effect on activation, and an effect on deactivation (typically remove the activation effect, none for weapons except the trig that reset the increase to 0). A script changes the effect of a module, it can give +100% to an effect. A script applied to an always-on module is only effective the moment the ship undock, because this is the moment its passive module take effect. (or when using a mobile depot or a bay like nestor ). Let’s say you have a script that affects a passive module. That module gives +100 shield and the script doubles that. 1. you online the module : +100. Then you offline it : -100. Net +0 2. Then you add the script : +0 (offline). Then you online the module : +200 (module+script). 3. then you remove the script. then you offline the module : -100 At the end you are back to start of step 2. BUT you gained +100 in the process !So you can repeat and gain infinite shield ! The only way to avoid that is to ensure a script is NOT changed between the moment the modified effect is applied, and the moment it is removed. That’s why you can’t change a script on an active module. Since passive modules, by definition, have all their effects applied when the module is online, it means you can’t change the script on an online module. ---
**Author:** ![A8ina](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/a8ina/32/396998_2.png) [@A8ina](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/A8ina)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 7:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-small-improvement-to-power-diagnostics/428461/30 "2023-11-22T19:03:42Z")
Also there auxiliary power control could use this benefit , that poor module only used on small frames ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-small-improvement-to-power-diagnostics/428461/31 "2023-11-22T19:07:27Z")
could gain an added base% like 2% . Not sure if needed. ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-small-improvement-to-power-diagnostics/428461/32 "2023-11-22T19:31:51Z")
It’s a module designed for frigates. It’s not necessary to change it. The only reason I threw support behind the op’s proposal was because there was already president for modules that add total capacitor to also have cap warfare resistance. That said, cap batteries also have a fairly large pg requirement, whereas power diagnostics give the player power, so it might not be balanced in that sense. Perhaps a better option would be something like a power relay, that gave flat cap and decreased shield hp but also gave the capacitor warfare resist bonus. The low slot engineering modules don’t use pg, so while losing hp is a pretty big detriment, not needing to spend pg on the ew resist could potentially be a reason to use the module. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 7:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-small-improvement-to-power-diagnostics/428461/33 "2024-02-20T19:32:23Z")
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