# A solution to the Maleatu Shakor problem (and other leadership woes) **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [October 17, 2019, 5:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049 "2019-10-17T05:28:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 8:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/21 "2019-10-17T08:01:09Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > Contemplating, yes. Plotting, no. Isn’t deciding to start a plot the first step? ---
**Author:** ![Pol\_Macsliebh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pol_macsliebh/32/376245_2.png) [@Pol\_Macsliebh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pol_Macsliebh)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 9:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/22 "2019-10-17T09:36:33Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > One of the greatest things about being a capsuleer is that I can say what I want, because I’m not dependant upon my clan’s support anymore. Ah this is your greatest weakness, Clan is everything! Shakor knows this, you may need to be reminded? The Republic is far from perfect but it is what we have today and its direction although slow remains true. Any assassination attempt on the life of the Sanmatar would be met with the full wrath of Ushra’Khan, So take your satirical nonsense back to what ever treacherous hole you crawled from. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 9:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/23 "2019-10-17T09:41:09Z")
> [@Pol\_Macsliebh](#): > > Ah this is your greatest weakness, Clan is everything! Family is more important. Family might still hold onto you when the clan is ready to throw you to the wolves. > [@Pol\_Macsliebh](#): > > Any assassination attempt on the life of the Sanmatar would be met with the full wrath of Ushra’Khan, So take your satirical nonsense back to what ever treacherous hole you crawled from. “My country, right or wrong”, eh? You know the longer version of it goes: “My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.” But at least you recognized satire, kudos for that. ---
**Author:** ![Pol\_Macsliebh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pol_macsliebh/32/376245_2.png) [@Pol\_Macsliebh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pol_Macsliebh)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 9:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/24 "2019-10-17T09:47:30Z")
Clan is family… I’t seems you have had a bad experience with your clan in the past, for this I am sorry. But for many Clan within the Tribes represents everything, love, support and honour. Ah I do believe in change, right or wrong! Is Shakor the man to lead us to Amarr and burn it to the ground? Probably not, but he will do for the moment. But suggestions of assassination of the Sanmatar however satirical will be taken seriously… ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 9:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/25 "2019-10-17T09:58:49Z")
> [@Pol\_Macsliebh](#): > > Clan is family… I’t seems you have had a bad experience with your clan in the past, for this I am sorry. You’re wrong, actually. I keep my clan somewhat distant for a reason, so that I can make topics like these for example without people taking my word as theirs and they can roll their eyes and ask “what did she do now?” But no, I don’t resent them, and I don’t think my clan resents me on the whole that much either. At least I didn’t getted egged last time I went home. Clan is family too, but it’s an extended family. Like _really_ extended. > [@Pol\_Macsliebh](#): > > But suggestions of assassination of the Sanmatar however satirical will be taken seriously… I wonder, since I’m not privy to your conversations, how did U’K react to the parliament murders back in the day then? Did it vow hunt down the killers? Or was the reaction more like “well, they probably deserved it. Elders said it, I believe it, that settles it!” ---
**Author:** ![Jade\_Blackwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jade_blackwind/32/197719_2.png) [@Jade\_Blackwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jade_Blackwind)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 10:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/26 "2019-10-17T10:12:03Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > **I think we should kill Maleatu Shakor.** Leaving evidence of his corruption on his body is optional. After that, we should have a sham Tribal Council session to name a new Sanmatar. > > And if we don’t like whom they choose, we should kill them too. Hey Tein, even if we sorta don’t get along, I still kinda like your idea. There’d be a lot of fun things coming from that. But still, let’s bring the same kind of fun to the Empire first. Shakor can wait. As soon as the Empire is reduced to one big patch of perma-burning lowsec, we can think about what to do with the Republic. 😛 Anyway, no, no killing Shakky while asshats like Chakaid still breathe, you bad girl. ---
**Author:** ![Pol\_Macsliebh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pol_macsliebh/32/376245_2.png) [@Pol\_Macsliebh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pol_Macsliebh)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 10:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/27 "2019-10-17T10:16:23Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > I wonder, since I’m not privy to your conversations, how did U’K react to the parliament murders back in the day then? Did it vow hunt down the killers? Or was the reaction more like “well, they probably deserved it. Elders said it, I believe it, that settles it!” Ushra’Khan deny any involvement in Shakor’s rise to power… I personally have full confidence in the Will of the Elders. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 10:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/28 "2019-10-17T10:25:01Z")
Your approval fills me with shame. Anyway, there is kind of the problem that do we ever get to burn down the Empire if Shakor is in power? ---
**Author:** ![Rinai\_Vero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rinai_vero/32/390870_2.png) [@Rinai\_Vero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rinai_Vero)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 11:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/29 "2019-10-17T11:01:58Z")
Extrajudicial killings, apart from the murder part itself, are particularly damaging to societies because they undermine the basic concept of institutional justice. We gallenteans are criticized for disrespecting or disregarding the sacred importance of tribal culture by imposing our style of government on the Republic, but it wasn’t us who soaked the legacy of “tribal government” in blood. It is probably true that a bunch of corrupt politicians got what they deserved, but with no due process a cloud of doubt will always hang over those deaths. Worse, who is to know that the next set of political assassinations are any more or less justified? All we know is that the precedent is set for murder as a legitimate tool of politics in the Republic. I don’t know how to solve that problem easily, but discussions like this one are an unfortunate necessity after such a national trauma. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 11:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/30 "2019-10-17T11:31:18Z")
> [@Pol\_Macsliebh](#): > > Ushra’Khan deny any involvement in Shakor’s rise to power… Nonsensical. U’K supported openly the traitor Karishal Muritor. They supported openly the Bloody Hands of Matar. They put a 1 isk bounty on the head of Karin Midular, then prime minister. Your leaders have taken and take _pride_ in helping into power the current regime and if anything think it has not gone _far enough_. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/31 "2019-10-17T11:34:14Z")
Also can we just skip the part where we argue if clan / caravan / family is the basic unit of kinship? I think it’s been done enough already that we know the kinship _feelings_ are the same, even if our terminology differs? ---
**Author:** ![Pol\_Macsliebh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pol_macsliebh/32/376245_2.png) [@Pol\_Macsliebh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pol_Macsliebh)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/32 "2019-10-17T11:38:15Z")
Support yes of course… involvement? Hmmm I suppose but the outcome would be no different with or without Ushra’Khan no matter how much we would like it to be true. ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 11:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/33 "2019-10-17T11:54:34Z")
And yet another mad raving on the IGS about how “bad” the Sanmatar is, despite the strength he and the Tribal Council have brought to our Tribal Republic. Maybe you should should lay of the _tea_. ---
**Author:** ![Nomistrav](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nomistrav/32/278296_2.png) [@Nomistrav](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nomistrav)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 11:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/34 "2019-10-17T11:59:14Z")
I’ll not comment on assassination plots within the Republic as it is neither my place nor in my interest. That said, I’ve honest questions. Assuming that Shakor were no longer Sanmatar (by assassination or otherwise), what would a new Sanmatar do differently that would satisfy the grievances against Maleatu? What can be accomplished within the power of capsuleers that Sanmatar Shakor cannot or perhaps will not perform with the power of a unified Republic? ---
**Author:** ![Pol\_Macsliebh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pol_macsliebh/32/376245_2.png) [@Pol\_Macsliebh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pol_Macsliebh)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 12:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/35 "2019-10-17T12:00:26Z")
My attempt at politics was always doomed to failure! “Death to Amarr” “Long Live Sanmatar” “For the Tribes! For the Elder! We come for our People!” ---
**Author:** ![Arsia\_Elkin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arsia_elkin/32/388703_2.png) [@Arsia\_Elkin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arsia_Elkin)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 12:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/36 "2019-10-17T12:08:15Z")
> [@Pol\_Macsliebh](#): > > “For the Tribes! For the Elder! We come for our People!” Considering U’K’s signature is on that new warzone agreement with the crappy pirates on our side, I’m surprised your new slogan isn’t “We come for our people unless selling some of them out to the Amarr militia can _possibly_ get slightly more interesting fights.” ---
**Author:** ![Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/melisma_ramijozana/32/168474_2.png) [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Melisma_Ramijozana)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 12:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/37 "2019-10-17T12:08:53Z")
> [@Nomistrav](#): > > what would a new Sanmatar do differently that would satisfy the grievances against Maleatu? Nothing. There’s a reason why Shakor has done so many things the same way that Midular did, even after criticizing her. It’s because due to the way our government is set up, due to CONCORD and whatever agreements we do or don’t have with the other empires, especially Amarr, it was the _only_ way that things could be done. I like this thread, but it doesn’t go far enough. The problem doesn’t end with the Sanmatar. We have to dismantle everything. Give power back to the individual Tribes. The same way it was before. Down with the Sanmatar. Down with the Tribal Council. Down with the Elder Network. ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 12:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/38 "2019-10-17T12:19:31Z")
> [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](#): > > Give power back to the individual Tribes At no time since the Great Save have the Tribes been ever so empowered. What you are asking for is a weakening of our people which would do nothing but leave us vulnerable to the Great Enemy, and invite another Day of Darkness. I would suggest you limit your time with the slavers and come back to the Home Mother. They are starting to infect your thinking. Never again a Long Night. ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 12:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/39 "2019-10-17T12:25:02Z")
> [@Cain\_Aloga](#): > > I would suggest you limit your time with the slavers There’s a certain irony here ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 12:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049/40 "2019-10-17T12:26:16Z")
There is no irony. I know what I am talking about, given my own experience. Why don’t you just come out and say what you mean? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-solution-to-the-maleatu-shakor-problem-and-other-leadership-woes/196049.md?page=3)