# A suggestion to make gameplay healthier. CCP please read this **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [January 17, 2021, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557 "2021-01-17T12:56:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/21 "2021-01-23T23:19:29Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Nerfing their yield If you nerf it enough to kill the afk utterly inefficient play, you nerf it enough to not be worth the active effort also so they go back inactive. An active Orca yields about the same as an unboosted barge, that’s active, and ignoring orbit travel times which happen even at 0 with a rock. As for in range and on grid, big deal. Follow at 5000. Alt tab out of orca window. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 11:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/22 "2021-01-23T23:26:29Z")
Why so binary? There is a large scale of numbers between ‘current yield’ and ‘0’, it’s not either the one or the other. What if we instead of killing afk play completely, we just nerf it just enough, while keeping the yield high enough to give an Orca something to do in between killing NPCs and repairing barges from NPC damage? The yield doesn’t need to be nerfed to 0, but can be nerfed to be a quarter of current yield, or half the current yield instead. It might not be enough for _some_ people to actively position their Orca, but for others that have their Orca on field and are paying attention anyway, they might do it as well. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 1:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/23 "2021-01-24T01:40:35Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > What if we instead of killing afk play completely, Nah, let’s kill it completely. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 2:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/24 "2021-01-24T02:21:05Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > What if we instead of killing afk play completely, we just nerf it just enough, while keeping the yield high enough to give an Orca something to do in between killing NPCs and repairing barges from NPC damage? Because it is binary. The ‘AFK Play’ doesn’t care about yield, so they will keep doing it the way they are even if you quarter yield, because it’s already so inefficient compared to active or barge mining that a nerf is irrelevant. Also the mining is not something to do between killing NPC’s & repairing barges, it’s something to do while boosting barges. Because reps take boosting high slots. So you can’t do both, and the barges do better at killing NPC’s in nearly every case. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 2:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/25 "2021-01-24T02:49:43Z")
@Gerard_Amatin I have a question for you… Have you ever done serious mining, solo or group play or within the realm of Multiboxing? ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 2:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/26 "2021-01-24T02:54:53Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Nah, let’s kill it completely. But lets not kill one form of optional AFK play which is inefficient and create another form of forced AFK play which is required for efficiency. If we have to pick between two forms of AFK play lets at least pick the one which is inefficient AFK. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 4:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/27 "2021-01-24T04:07:30Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > If we have to pick between two forms of AFK play lets at least pick the one which is inefficient AFK. Or, CCP does their jobs and actually develops a game (with _gameplay_!) that requires players to be at attention / does not reward AFK. (but we all know that’s not gonna happen) ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 4:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/28 "2021-01-24T04:11:35Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > actually develops a game (with _gameplay_!) that requires players to be at attention / does not reward AFK. Sure, it’s a nice easy throw away line to say, but not one that is actually easy to solve With all the brain power players have thrown at it we’ve pretty much come up with either ‘Remove the gameplay entirely and send Orca’s back to AFK’ or ‘Minigames that remove your focus from the main game and will get boring very fast’ CCP are not gods of near infinite brain power, they are no smarter than at least some of us on these forums (Ok, there are the odd individuals they are certainly smarter than), so if we in our multitude haven’t hit on a good starting point for a solution I don’t see CCP hitting on it either. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 4:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/29 "2021-01-24T04:16:49Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > With all the brain power players have thrown at it Players are horrifically bad at game design, the best thing any developer should do is immediately disregard them. Too many people are more than happy to vomit garbage and claim it’ll fix problems but actually have no idea what they’re talking about. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > they are no smarter than at least some of us on these forums While I don’t personally know the experience and knowledge of CCP developers, it’s pretty hilarious comment to make. Reminds me of that Naari idiot who claimed to be a game developer but kept spewing poorly thought out “ideas.” Just by virtue of their position as developers, with access to so much more information, metrics, etc. I’d put more stock in CCP devs than any kid on these forums. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 4:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/30 "2021-01-24T04:33:13Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > I’d put more stock in CCP devs than any kid on these forums. Nice selective comment, nowhere did I say the Devs should just do what someone on the forum has said. What I said is that if none of us have hit on a starting point for a decent solution, then the Devs are no more likely to. The fine details of the solution, absolutely, the Devs know better than any of us because they can actually get access to relevant data, but the first creative spark part, that any ‘kid on the forums’ can come up with and the Devs spin off on an angle from there. Even Naari came up with a few decent creative sparks, he just insisted he knew best beyond there as well, and if the spark was any good in the context of EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/31 "2021-01-24T06:13:10Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > What I said is that if none of us have hit on a starting point for a decent solution, then the Devs are no more likely to. Yeah, I heard you the first time, kid. You’re still wrong. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > . Even Naari came up with a few decent creative sparks lmao, now i know you’re full of garbage ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/32 "2021-01-24T06:43:27Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Yeah, I heard you the first time, kid. You’re still wrong. And I see you have now decided to simply descend to personal insults, once upon a time you used to actually make quality points, now you’ve just descended into salty bitter vetness. > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > lmao Being unable to accept that someone you dislike can actually have a good idea is far more a comment on you than anyone else, A broken clock is right twice a day, he threw enough at the forums he pretty much couldn’t help but have a gem or two worth a second look in that giant heap. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/33 "2021-01-24T11:07:36Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Because it is binary. The ‘AFK Play’ doesn’t care about yield, so they will keep doing it the way they are even if you quarter yield, because it’s already so inefficient compared to active or barge mining that a nerf is irrelevant. It isn’t binary, and that’s where you’re going wrong. What you’re doing is presenting a false choice: Yield = AFK Orcas No yield = no AFK Orcas, but Orca gameplay is now completely inactive You seem to think that I want to make AFK mining _impossible_. That’s not my goal, I just want to _discourage_ AFK mining. My assumption is that when the yield is nerfed but not yet 0, _less_ people will find AFK mining in Orcas worth it. I don’t think _all_ people will stop AFK mining in Orcas, as that would indeed require 0 yield. Do you think I’m wrong about that? > [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > @Gerard_Amatin I have a question for you… > > Have you ever done serious mining, solo or group play or within the realm of Multiboxing? Yes. I regularly (used to) mine ice in null as a significant part of my ISK income and did so solo, in a group or multiboxing booster + miner. Also touched some moons but that wasn’t my kind of mining as I don’t enjoy playing games on a schedule. Why the question? ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/34 "2021-01-24T11:18:12Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > I just want to _discourage_ AFK mining. But it is binary, because by the time you significantly discourage afk mining, you have utterly destroyed all active mining in an Orca. Which means that you are INCREASING the percentage use of AFK Orcas, since at the point you destroy active mining, pretty much all viable active use of an Orca is destroyed, with a few specific use case exceptions sure, but they are not common. This is why your idea is not going to solve the AFK orca issue, not that it really is an issue because of how utterly inefficient AFK mining with an Orca is. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/35 "2021-01-24T11:18:52Z")
You seem to think that people stop using the Orcas when the yield is 0. That isn’t true. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 11:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/36 "2021-01-24T11:19:16Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > You seem to think that people stop using the Orcas when the yield is 0. Try actually reading what I’m saying, not what you want me to be saying. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 11:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/37 "2021-01-24T11:22:32Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Try actually reading what I’m saying, not what you want me to be saying. > Which means that you are INCREASING the percentage use of AFK Orcas, since at the point you destroy active mining, pretty much all viable active use of an Orca is destroyed, with a few specific use case exceptions sure, but they are not common. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I interpreted this part of your text as “People will stop using Orcas actively in mining fleets, only AFK Orca users remain”. My assumption is that every mining fleet will want at least one Orca, regardless of their yield. If you think otherwise, please let me know. Sure, fleets with multiple active Orcas now will probably move to a single Orca and multiple barges/exhumers, but that is exactly my intention. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 11:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/38 "2021-01-24T11:28:56Z")
I asked the question before i said anything else to determine your level of knowledge and skill. Now I can make a comment. Ice mining is not that extensive, so in that part since you say that is the most significant amount of mining you have done I must say your knowledge for this particular discussion along with your support of nerfing Orca’s is very lacking. For industry, the speed at mining the proper resources comes from numbers, in HS all it takes is 1 orca with proper boosts and an organized skiff fleet is devastating to an entire constellation…cause with proper boosts that skiff fleet (lets say 10) and proper fits+implants can achieve 160k EHP and mine 3x faster than an equivalent number of orca’s. In losec, well you would use procs and porpoise for boosts, maybe with a few combat pilots in tow to get in and out quickly, and in event of combat you might lose some procs but you would gain far more than you would lose. I am sure in nullsec, what not with Rorqs and hulks instead of orcas there is usually proper forces to safeguard serious mining operations. A nerf to Orca will not achieve anything. and so therefore your desire to Nerf the orca is a false pretense. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 11:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/39 "2021-01-24T11:29:37Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > My assumption is that every mining fleet will want at least one Orca At which point they are now AFK Orcas. The Orca pilot does not have to do anything with fleet hangers. The barge pilots drop it in, the hauler pilots grab it out, the Orca does nothing. So yes, every mining fleet in high sec will want at least one Orca, but IT DOES NOT MAKE THEM ACTIVE. And the inactive orca pilots DON’T CARE ABOUT YIELD. Because they already get a massively nerfed yield compared to an active Orca, and an active Orca is only around an unbonused barge. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557/40 "2021-01-24T11:30:30Z")
and your intention would be stupid actually. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-suggestion-to-make-gameplay-healthier-ccp-please-read-this/290557.md?page=3)