# A Year Ago I Was Ridiculed For Suggesting BCs For Alphas **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 29, 2017, 7:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065 "2017-12-29T07:31:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/141 "2018-01-09T17:21:36Z")
> [@March\_rabbit](#): > > April 2017 seen Active ISK delta of -41 trillion. Did people unsub back already? What? That is a bit high, but not out of line with what we saw in preceding months. Feb. 2017 had -35.6 trillion ISK, Jan. 2017 had an active ISK delta of -60.7 trillion. And October 2017 had -38.1 trillion ISK. The average from April 2017 back to July 2016 is -23.3 trillion and discounting December 2016 given that is when Alpha clones hit, it is -27.8 trillion. So if the Active ISK Delta changes dramatically it will have an effect on the money supply, especially if it happens for an extended period. Suddenly a bunch of ISK that was locked out of the economy due to subs being inactive then there could be an issue with inflation. As I said, CCP jumped on the problem in 2017 pretty quick…looking at the inflation numbers there isn’t much evidence of inflation let alone hyperinflation. However, this has become a meme. It literally won’t die. People were saying it when there was, if anything, _ **DEFLATION** _. ---
**Author:** ![Anjyl\_Took](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anjyl_took/32/31967_2.png) [@Anjyl\_Took](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anjyl_Took)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/142 "2018-01-09T20:51:08Z")
> [@March\_rabbit](#): > > What CCP really wants you to either: > > be content for Omegas > > or > pay to be Omega. > > That’s it. Or pay for SP Or pay for SKINs Or pay for MCT (honestly I can’t see this ever happening on an Alpha account, but in theory it could) Or pay for clothes If you think Omega is the only way to “pay” CCP, you just haven’t been paying attention. It would be more true had you said: > What CCP _really_ wants you to either: > > - be content for PLEX buyers > or > - pay real world money for PLEX or a subscription. > > That’s it. Alphas and Omegas can both take either of these roles. ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/143 "2018-01-09T20:58:43Z")
> [@Anjyl\_Took](#): > > Or pay for SP > Or pay for MCT (honestly I can’t see this ever happening on an Alpha account, but in theory it could) Only before you reach 20 million SP. Then - nope. > [@Anjyl\_Took](#): > > Or pay for SKINs Very “special” stuff… > [@Anjyl\_Took](#): > > Or pay for clothes They killed captain quarters… 🤨 Actually you have not much stuff to buy for money here… ---
**Author:** ![Anjyl\_Took](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anjyl_took/32/31967_2.png) [@Anjyl\_Took](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anjyl_Took)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/144 "2018-01-09T21:13:53Z")
> [@March\_rabbit](#): > > Only before you reach 20 million SP. Then - nope. Yes, but I think we could argue that this might be **more** than a PLEXed Omega has paid, although a PLEXed Omega is **much** better “content” (for CCP) to provide for the PLEX buyers. The logic here being that the 20 mil Alpha SP costs more than 20 mil Omega SP would cost, and an Omega who wants to PLEX their account should be able to do it before the 20 mil SP mark. > [@March\_rabbit](#): > > They killed captain quarters… 🤨 CCP “logic” 😕 The bottom line is you are either buying CCP’s content, by transferring them real world money, or you are the content they are selling to others. ---
**Author:** ![Anjyl\_Took](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anjyl_took/32/31967_2.png) [@Anjyl\_Took](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anjyl_Took)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/145 "2018-01-09T21:17:08Z")
The new Alpha update and Alpha injectors will make it harder/slower for a player to PLEX their account, because instead of saving for the big one-time buy of a PLEX, they will now have the instant gratification option of cashing out their savings for 1-day of SP, at a higher cost. Alpha is a financial win for CCP, not a free give-away. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 12:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/146 "2018-01-10T00:55:00Z")
> [@Anjyl\_Took](#): > > be content for PLEX buyers Yeah, because by being Omega I’m nobody’s content. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 6:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/147 "2018-01-10T06:43:53Z")
> [@Anjyl\_Took](#): > > we could argue that this might be more than a PLEXed Omega has paid It is but at some point Alpha stops to pay while Omega continues to do it. Even if by this time Alpha paid 1.5x of Omega with the same amount of SP there will be point when Omega becomes more interesting for CCP. Let’s say it happens when Omega reaches 30 million SP. Does it change anything? Nope. Alpha stopped to pay while Omega continues to do it. > [@Anjyl\_Took](#): > > The bottom line is you are either buying CCP’s content, by transferring them real world money, or you are the content they are selling to others. Ideally every player is content for others. Be it Alpha or Omega. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 7:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/148 "2018-01-10T07:03:51Z")
Iirc, there was a lot of disgruntled carrier pilots after the nerf, whom may have contributed to the isk delta post-nerf, as compared to the preceeding situation. Furthermore, back then, it was only when the situation got bad that CCP acted, and it got bad because gradually more players recognized the potential profit from carrier ratting. Goons seem to be the ones that kept at it. ---
**Author:** ![Anjyl\_Took](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anjyl_took/32/31967_2.png) [@Anjyl\_Took](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anjyl_Took)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 8:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/149 "2018-01-10T08:34:54Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Yeah, because by being Omega I’m nobody’s content. 🙄 I know that you are confused by things like logical statements, but nothing I said excluded paying customers from being content for other paying customers. The “or” has no reason to be taken as an exclusive or. Let me try to spell it out for you with small words: - If you don’t give CCP real world money but you play the game, you are only content for paying customers, you are not yourself a customer. CCP wants this. - If you pay CCP real world money but don’t actually play the game, you are a paying customer, but you are not content for other players. CCP wants this. - If you create accounts but don’t pay anything or play, you are neither content nor a customer. CCP doesn’t want this. - If you pay real world money and you play the game, you are both a paying customer and content for other paying customers. CCP wants this. Being Omega could make you fall into the “only content” group (if in-game PLEXed) the “customer but not content” group (if you don’t play) or (this is an “exclusive or”) the “customer and content group” (if paid with real world money). So, your sarcasm and eye-roll only shows that you have misunderstood… again. Next time, it might help you if you drew the truth table or actually thought about what was said before making such a stupid reply. And to save you another stupid reply the above “CCP wants this” statements are not equally weighted. > [@March\_rabbit](#): > > It is but at some point Alpha stops to pay while Omega continues to do it. No, the subscriber continues to pay, Omega may or may not continue to pay. And since I was talking about “PLEXed Omega” (of course you can buy PLEX from CCP to PLEX your own account, but those players are counted as “subscribers” not “PLEXed Omega” for the points I’m making) they are by definition not “paying customers” but “content for paying customers”. So the question is not about the end state where the 20 mil SP Alpha and the PLEXed Omega are both not paying customers but only content for paying customers, but how and what they paid to get there. Treating the two extremes (most real-world cases will be a mix of these): - If they both got there by in-game grinding then neither of them paid anything. - If they both got to their end state only by paying CCP real world money, the Alpha would have paid much more. As I said before, the end state PLEXed Omega is “better content” for CCP, this is because it is both game content and real money market content, where as the Alpha is game content and potential real money market content. > [@March\_rabbit](#): > > Ideally every player is content for others. Be it Alpha or Omega. Of course! I think we agree on this. You were the one who first said “content or”. 😉 It’s not that paying makes you stop being content for other players, but that if you aren’t transferring CCP real world money you are “only” content. By “only” content, I mean you are not a paying customer, but you are still a potential customer. (See above for more on this.) ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/150 "2018-01-10T20:23:03Z")
> [@Anjyl\_Took](#): > > I know that you are confused by things like logical statements, but nothing I said excluded paying customers from being content for other paying customers. We are all each other’s content. Saying that Alpha’s are simply content for Omega’s is completely blinkered. Creating these artificial distinctions is neither helpful or desirable. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 8:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/151 "2018-01-10T20:24:54Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > > [@Anjyl\_Took](#): > > > > I know that you are confused by things like logical statements, but nothing I said excluded paying customers from being content for other paying customers. > > We are all each other’s content. Saying that Alpha’s are simply content for Omega’s is completely blinkered. Creating these artificial distinctions is neither helpful or desirable. Dude… She just said the exact same if you read the rest of her post. She explained it all in minute detail. ---
**Author:** ![Anjyl\_Took](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anjyl_took/32/31967_2.png) [@Anjyl\_Took](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anjyl_Took)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/152 "2018-01-10T20:26:13Z")
I never said > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Alpha’s are simply content for Omega’s I said people who don’t give CCP money are not paying customers, and therefore are not customers, but are potential customers and content for those who actually pay CCP real world money, also content for other non-customers. _Edit_ In fact I think I was quite clear that the conversation should not be about Alpha and Omega, because either can be a paying customer or not, but about who is actually giving or not giving real world money to CCP. The idea that Omegas pay and Alphas play for free is not true. Yes, “someone had to buy the PLEX the Omega used” and the person who bought it is CCP’s customer and the player who buys it in-game is the content for that PLEX buyer. In-game transactions don’t pay any of CCP’s bills, the in-game PLEX market is content for those who buy PLEX to sell for ISK. ---
**Author:** ![Soleiyu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/soleiyu/32/176333_2.png) [@Soleiyu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Soleiyu)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 10:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/153 "2018-01-10T22:30:32Z")
sweet baby jesus christ in a handbasket what are they _doing_ in delve O\_o ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 10:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/154 "2018-01-10T22:41:12Z")
Dude…that was my initial position in my penultimate response. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 10:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/155 "2018-01-10T22:41:32Z")
We have been very busy. ---
**Author:** ![Anjyl\_Took](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anjyl_took/32/31967_2.png) [@Anjyl\_Took](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anjyl_Took)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/156 "2018-01-10T23:15:05Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Dude…that was my initial position in my penultimate response. Actually your position was not just that, but also sarcasm that I had said otherwise. The argument hasn’t been about who you said was or wasn’t content, it’s been about you implying, and later saying, that I had said Alphas are content for Omega and Omegas are not content. Since your “penultimate response” you haven’t shown at any point that you have understood anything that I have written, yet you are convinced that I am wrong. The fact that you are trying to say I said things about “Alphas” and “Omegas” just shows that you either didn’t understand what I said, or you intentionally tried to twist it into a straw-man. P.S. @Salvos_Rhoska thanks for the edit to fix gender issues. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 5:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/157 "2018-01-11T05:10:15Z")
> [@Anjyl\_Took](#): > > The idea that Omegas pay and Alphas play for free is not true. Yes, “someone had to buy the PLEX the Omega used” and the person who bought it is CCP’s customer and the player who buys it in-game is the content for that PLEX buyer. In-game transactions don’t pay any of CCP’s bills, the **in-game PLEX market is content for those who buy PLEX to sell for ISK**. Look at bolden part. People can buy PLEX to resell for ISK only when there is demand for PLEXes ingame. So yes, in a sense, every Omega is paid customer. And PLEXing makes more money to CCP that subscribing. ---
**Author:** ![Tiddle\_Jr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiddle_jr/32/469145_2.png) [@Tiddle\_Jr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiddle_Jr)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 6:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/158 "2018-01-11T06:13:46Z")
I’m thinking of now what’s the driven factor to buy plex for cash and sell for iskies? Especially now when farming isk/hour is so high and easy. ---
**Author:** ![Anjyl\_Took](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anjyl_took/32/31967_2.png) [@Anjyl\_Took](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anjyl_Took)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 9:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/159 "2018-01-11T09:19:26Z")
> [@March\_rabbit](#): > > Look at bolden part. People can buy PLEX to resell for ISK only when there is demand for PLEXes ingame. Yes, but that demand is the content, not the customer. > [@March\_rabbit](#): > > PLEXing makes more money to CCP that subscribing. Yes it does, but it makes the money from the real life PLEX buyer, not from the in-game PLEXer. In fact it makes CCP the same about of money (or more becuase of demand) if that PLEX gets destroyed in-game. The demand of the in-game PLEX is the content that makes PLEX be bought, buying the real world buying of PLEX makes CCP money and makes that player a customer of CCP. What happens to the PLEX after it’s bought in the real world effects the demand, but it doesn’t change CCP’s income if it’s used to in-game PLEX or not. > [@March\_rabbit](#): > > So yes, in a sense, every Omega is paid customer. In that sense **every Player is a paid customer** , in that sense every crappy free Facebook game has “paying customers” because they provide the demand for advertisers to pay for the game. As the saying goes “if you aren’t paying (real world money) for it, you aren’t a customer, you are the product.” Google, Facebook, etc. they all provide something to you without a real world cost so they can sell you to others. EvE does the same thing by providing in-game (without real world money) options for expanded game play, and those who grind for and spend ISK for SP/game time are the product sold to real world PLEX buyers. ---
**Author:** ![Expendable\_Unit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/expendable_unit/32/377349_2.png) [@Expendable\_Unit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Expendable_Unit)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 9:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065/160 "2018-01-11T09:54:59Z")
Be that as it may, Alpha Clones are still useless. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-year-ago-i-was-ridiculed-for-suggesting-bcs-for-alphas/48065.md?page=9)