# About the VNI nerf (feedback and idea) **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [May 30, 2019, 1:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065 "2019-05-30T13:55:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bronson\_Hughes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bronson_hughes/32/189075_2.png) [@Bronson\_Hughes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bronson_Hughes)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/21 "2019-05-30T18:28:56Z")
My short reply: I partially agree with you. I say bring back the speed bonuses, _but not for heavy drones_. My long reply: a bonus to drone speed is basically an application bonus because your drones spend less time getting to their target, and it’s less likely that their target can avoid damage by outrunning them. With a tracking _and_ speed bonus to drones, the VNI was double-bonused for application, which meant it could use a full flight of damage-bonused heavy drones and apply DPS exceedingly well down to cruiser-sized targets. CCP thought that was a bit OP (as backed up by the VNI’s immense popularity) and removed the speed bonus. As far as heavy drones go, I’m fully onboard with the speed nerf. It was just too much. But what about mediums and lights? You still have excellent application but much lower overall DPS output so it’s less OP for PvE activities, yet it’s still very useful as an anti-support cruiser. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/22 "2019-05-30T20:07:44Z")
> [@Ms\_Steak](#): > > it is much easier to deal with it at its source: aggressive drone AI. Remove it and no more AFK is possible with drone vessels, period. Except for bots, who are unhindered. > [@Sitso\_Frenia](#): > > This is the results of semi-afk orbiting at 50 on a blood raider rock haven while reading the forum and eve reddit. . . . So activly on those i easily pass 25 mill ticks yeah. My drone skills are not maxed. So again, you’ve dodged the point. First off, let’s start you with an easy question, What do you mean by “semi-afk”? Second, why do you believe that being “active” would mean you can 'easily pass 25m ticks yeah."? If you can easily pass 25m ticks, why can’t you show me proof of that? Also: > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Please tell me how the fit, skills and “what kind of tank you use” impacts how often a rat will yellow box you. I would love to know where you’re getting these ideas from. 😃 Let’s be real though, we haven’t even touched the rest of the stuff that’s wrong with your original post, lmao. Things like: > [@Sitso\_Frenia](#): > > Or create an even huger citadel then the keepstar and make so costly in materials to build that it would cost a trillion or maybe two. . . .These citadels dont have to be much stronger. Being an prestige item is probably enough for factions to want them. This already exists in the game in the form of the Palatine Keepstar, if you’re not aware. > [@Sitso\_Frenia](#): > > So maybe buff battlecruisers and battleships a bit up. Make them slightly more deadly against capital ships in small groups. You don’t even explain how this helps solve the “isk/material sink” problem. You just throw it out there like a piece of trash you threw out a car window. > [@Sitso\_Frenia](#): > > Revert the drone velocity nerf on the VNI as its just contributing to what people call ‘frigates online’ and just reduce the bounties on high-end anomalies a little bit. Again, you just say things without explaining. Why should we revert the drone speed nerf? What is “frigates online” and why is it bad? Do you have any evidence or support to show that the drone speed nerf was so fundamentally important to the game that it’s changed EVE Online to Frigates Online? Like, yikes, tbh. I’ll refer you to my original post, everything here is poorly thought out, horribly unexplained, and overall sounds like it’s coming from someone who has only heard of people talking about issues but never actually had to deal with them personally. -1 ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Steak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ms_steak/32/168834_2.png) [@Ms\_Steak](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ms_Steak)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/23 "2019-05-30T20:14:23Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Except for bots, who are unhindered. Bots are unhindered by EVERYTHING that isnt “too intrusive” for normal users! So stop trying to shift from AFK to bots - they are 2 very different problems. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/24 "2019-05-30T20:15:39Z")
> [@Ms\_Steak](#): > > Bots are unhindered by EVERYTHING that isnt “too intrusive” for normal users! So stop trying to shift from AFK to bots The problem is by trying to “fix” one thing, you’re making another problem signficantly worse. If you cannot see beyond this narrow minded approach and understand how it’ll impact the game as a whole, then you frankly don’t have the awareness to propose changes to the game. ---
**Author:** ![Sitso\_Frenia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sitso_frenia/32/137745_2.png) [@Sitso\_Frenia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sitso_Frenia)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/25 "2019-05-30T20:29:27Z")
You probably to biased because you make a living out of afk vni’s in eve lol ---
**Author:** ![slobo\_slobovitch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/slobo_slobovitch/32/170220_2.png) [@slobo\_slobovitch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/slobo_slobovitch)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/26 "2019-05-31T11:49:57Z")
I’d guess he is biased, but there are some strong arguments to allow afk gameplay. Lets have a small history lesson: Back in the days it used to be so that carriers could use drones, that made them the best afk ratting ship the game has ever seen. They were also usefull for pvp, as that required minimal clicks, one only needed to asing drones to assist the FC. All this resulted in a generic null resident to have an avarage of 3-10 carrier alts that he could easily multibox in pvp and pve situations. Now after the carriers were nerfed and drones removed, those null players sudenly had way too many alts that they had no use for. The only remaining thing for them was VNI ratting, but that was not enough, they ended up quitting, costing ccp an huge portion of their income. A little bit forward, ccp comes to the realization that they need to have an ingame mechanic that encourages hardcore players to get more alts or the company will go bankcrupt. And thus the rorqual changes came to be, enabling easily multiboxable afk pve content for those null pilots who had cancelled most of their subscriptions, saving the game. So when it comes to easily multiboxable afk pve in eve, one should always consider ccps finances before making suggestions. Altho VNIs dont matter that much for this perspective, their income is just too low. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 12:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/27 "2019-05-31T12:00:32Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Given that under your system, it would take 1 hour to make 9 million isk with a VNI. What problem are you actually trying to address here? If nobody told you already, I think you misunderstood his numbers. They are the total isk LOSS by his proposal, not what people are doing now. eg a 30M haven done in 30 min in a VNI, modified to 25M by his proposal, means a loss of 5\*2= 10M per hour or ±3.3M per tick. Now I did not even read his whole proposal, because it’s badly presented and I’m lazy. But from what I read, you misunderstood it. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 12:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/28 "2019-05-31T12:02:36Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > If nobody told you already, I think you misunderstood his numbers. > They are the total isk LOSS by his proposal, not what people are doing now. I wish my brain was this flexible to achieve such tremendous mental gymnastics. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 12:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/29 "2019-05-31T12:04:12Z")
Well if you are not sure you understand something, it’s best to just not answer. Or ask for confirmation before you give your opinion. Otherwise you give a useless opinion on some idea that was not proposed in the first place and it’s awkward and a loss of time for everybody 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 12:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/30 "2019-05-31T12:06:15Z")
> [@slobo\_slobovitch](#): > > Altho VNIs dont matter that much for this perspective, their income is just too low. What ? VNIs are the main source of AFK isk. Remember almost all other AFK activities don’t bring isks, but _resources_ . Mining does NOT create isks. carrier farming is not AFK, smart bombing havens is not AFK, belt ratting is not either. ---
**Author:** ![slobo\_slobovitch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/slobo_slobovitch/32/170220_2.png) [@slobo\_slobovitch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/slobo_slobovitch)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 12:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/31 "2019-05-31T12:18:41Z")
I ment the ccp finance perspective, as afk VNI ratting is not contributing nearly as much to omega subscriptions, when compared to rorquals or old drone carriers. VNIs can even be flown as alpha. E: my point was just to point out that multiboxing, afk gameplay and ccp income are tied together. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 12:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/32 "2019-05-31T12:26:13Z")
I know people who farm in rorquals and the rorqual alts pay for themselves in a few hours of moon farming per month(even at the higher plex cost). also, not including the ability to add research/PI/manufacturing toon for a few more B isks. People who own 10s of rorqual accounts don’t pay for them. They drive the plex price higher, which in turn means people who pay cash for plexes actually need less plex for the same amount of cash - and thus, buy less plex from CCP. Those people will just stop plexing accounts (and let them sleep alpha) if the cost of plex becomes too high, exactly the same as the SP farmers. So actually, the increase in activities whose gain scales with the number of AFK accounts _reduces_ the sales of plex for CCP. ---
**Author:** ![slobo\_slobovitch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/slobo_slobovitch/32/170220_2.png) [@slobo\_slobovitch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/slobo_slobovitch)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/33 "2019-05-31T12:36:19Z")
I dont want to get in the conversation on wether players paying with plex or real life cash is better, as that will derail this thread completely. But we dont even have to go there, as in the grand scale, more omegas means more income for ccp. I only want the people who suggests nerfs to afk gameplay to keep in mind that the amount of omega accounts are affected by these nerfs. I personaly dont think that afk gameplay is good, but I also dont know any changes to it that would also keep the current omega numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 12:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/34 "2019-05-31T12:50:57Z")
> [@slobo\_slobovitch](#): > > as in the grand scale, more omegas means more income for ccp Not really. More omega in one month means more plex transformed into subs in that months ; but it does not mean more income on that month, and actually may mean _less_ income over the long term for CCP. What I’m saying is, maybe the AFK activities (SP fams, rorqual mining - alpha bots VNI on anoms) actually reduce the income of CCP. IMO the only things that increase CCP income on the long term is - need for specific new skills (triglavian titans 😛 ) that makes people need more money for a goal. - interesting gameplay that need more accounts but does not pay itself (low isk gain but high fun gain) . eg. resource wars was this kind of thing. The rewards was really ■■■■ though. Abyssal pvp too. - more skins and make them more visible in the game (walking in station …) ---
**Author:** ![slobo\_slobovitch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/slobo_slobovitch/32/170220_2.png) [@slobo\_slobovitch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/slobo_slobovitch)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/35 "2019-05-31T12:53:11Z")
I dont know what to say to you, as your stance seems to be that in the long run the less there are omegas the more ccp will make money. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 12:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/36 "2019-05-31T12:54:37Z")
“more omega does not mean more income” is not the same as “less omega means more income”. plus I was specifically talking about omegas on self-sustaining activities (AKA AFK alts) ---
**Author:** ![slobo\_slobovitch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/slobo_slobovitch/32/170220_2.png) [@slobo\_slobovitch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/slobo_slobovitch)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 1:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/37 "2019-05-31T13:22:34Z")
All I’m saying that nerfs to afk gameplay will have effect on the amount of omega accounts, wether its a good or a bad thing is another topic. I just hope that people keep the connection between those two in mind when arguing for, or against, suggestions to afk gameplay. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/40 "2019-05-31T17:49:50Z")
> [@slobo\_slobovitch](#): > > All I’m saying that nerfs to afk gameplay will have effect on the amount of omega accounts, And all I’m saying is that you may be wrong in that concern, when you link it to CCP income. Nerf to AFK gameplay may on the opposite result in increase in plex2isk cost, thus increase in CCP plex sale. In that point of view, people who need 1B per month now need to buy 1B/0.004 = 250 plex per month . If there are less AFK self sustaining activities, then the plex2isk will increase so they will need more than 250 plex per month. So CCP will make more sales per months 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/41 "2019-05-31T22:11:25Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Nerf to AFK gameplay may on the opposite result in increase in plex2isk cost, thus increase in CCP plex sale. [Citation needed] ---
**Author:** ![Sitso\_Frenia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sitso_frenia/32/137745_2.png) [@Sitso\_Frenia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sitso_Frenia)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2019, 10:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065/43 "2019-06-02T10:54:23Z")
They could add a omega restriction to it again. That would also be a good option, This is already in place for a noctis. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/about-the-vni-nerf-feedback-and-idea/163065.md?page=3)