# Abysmal Joke (Joy) - How a great idea can fail so hard (or be great after all) **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 29, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383 "2018-05-29T22:54:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Brewlar\_Kuvakei](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brewlar_kuvakei/32/422694_2.png) [@Brewlar\_Kuvakei](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brewlar_Kuvakei)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 9:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/42 "2018-05-30T09:03:34Z")
Filaments will be flooding markets next week, don’t worry. This PVE content will be ground int the dust like all other pve and every drop rendered worthless. Bots will find the abyssal space hard to deal with so many variables but filament hunting will be botted to hell and back very soon. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 10:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/43 "2018-05-30T10:04:02Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Told you they should have gone linear model with 1 guaranteed filament drop on completion to next L. > > But NOOO you said. True, but I also told you that a droprate below 1, would take the focus away from the content _inside_ AD and structurally create the necessity for people to farm filaments in other parts of the game. > [@Brewlar\_Kuvakei](#): > > Filaments will be flooding markets next week, don’t worry. This PVE content will be ground int the dust like all other pve and every drop rendered worthless. I see your point, but isn’t that always the issue no matter what the PVE and no matter how it is implemented? The loot in Abyssal Deadspace should be worth the while in its own right, not just because one can sell it for lots of ISK in the beginning. Triglavian ships and Mutaplasmids are very interesting additions to the game and given a sensible droprate for either, will provide a motivation to run these sites in the long term. Instead of limiting access to the sites by making people grind external mechanics (Data Sites), it is enough to steer influx of loot by difficulty of the sites. How any other Tier than 5 can drop a Leshak BPC is beyond me, just as an example. > [@Chan\_aar](#): > > If the filaments had dropped like candy then prices on all of the Abyssal loot would have crashed to mud already (they will probably end up there) because everyone and his dog would be running them. > > This way the things have value for longer. See above. Data Sites are farmable, even though it sucks. Hard enough PVE is not farmable and offers the perfect way to make sure prices don’t crash and giving people a feeling of accomplishment. If they have tuned up the Filament droprate in Data Sites, it will push prices of loot down naturally. That’s not necessarily bad, but it depends on the droprates of loot in AD. If that was too high to begin with, a huge increase in Filament proliferation now will indeed crash the market. > [@Nigbala\_Tareem](#): > > I mean you could adjust the way they drop so you get an increase around the level 2-3 (i.e. levels 1 and 2 might drop more that one filament of the next tier) and make it funnel to levels 4-5 (i.e. levels 3 and 4 have a chance to drop which is \<100%). That’s pretty exactly what I proposed when we discussed linear vs tree drop model long before launch. You don’t want people to farm Tier4 and Tier5, but at the same time you don’t want the need for an external mechanic to become the grindy part of this content. A droprate for filaments Tier 1 \> Tier 2 \> Tier 3 \> Tier 4 \> Tier 5 is a good approach for that, taken that there should be a higher chance to find equal or lower Tier filaments than finding a higher one. > [@Agondray](#): > > im waiting on CCP to tell us in a month theres not enough people running the sites, so the system will be scrapped/handed off to another team for future use as something else. I really hope this doesn’t happen. Abyssal Deadspace itself is great, but choosing to unnecessarily exclude and thereby frustrate people on Day 1 was probably not the best way to launch it. Frustration aka motivation should come from the difficulty inside and as seen on Zkill that seems to work out just fine. > [@erg\_cz](#): > > It is not a failure at all. Failure was you spending hours looking for filaments, though it was clear from the beginnnig, that those, who are able to log in after the downtime will quickly farm them all out. No filaments in data sites lefft is not a failure, its a success Maybe I didn’t make myself clear. I logged in after downtime and ran Data Site after Data Site as the first to enter in most cases. Friends from the regions did the same. Most of us spent many hours before finding the first filament. It was not due to containers already being looted, it was because of a low drop rate. People suggest that this has been changed now. > [@erg\_cz](#): > > If nothing else, Abyss did short term job of ultimate ISK sink. And that is very good for game economy. Only if the droprate for Mutaplasmids is reasonably high in order to entice people brick loads of modules and the droprates for Triglavian Ships is reasonably low to entice people to lose their ships in high tier sites. If that will be so, it will be great. > [@Nigbala\_Tareem](#): > > If 500m payout is not worth the trip to jita - humblebragging about you being space rich and at the same time space bored and looking for good pve - the why not go to jita and spread some of that hard earned iskies to buy yourself 10 filaments for 5 bil and go about doing your pve thing ? Maybe we have different understandings of what space rich means, because I am not. Or maybe you live in Highsec and have no grasp of how much you miss out on in other areas of space. Anyway, why would anyone waste 5 bil like that? Does it occur to you that people may simply want to face the challenge and risk on TQ without first and foremost thinking about how to bloat up their wallet beyond necessity? You need ISK, but if they become your main motivator to play the game, something is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 10:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/44 "2018-05-30T10:12:51Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > True, but I also told you that a droprate below 1, would take the focus away from the content _inside_ AD and structurally create the necessity for people to farm filaments in other parts of the game. I was against a droprate of less than 1, or more than 1. I proposed one guaranteed filament drop on completion, to the next L in the chain. 1 filament= 1 L1-L5 chain. ---
**Author:** ![Alice\_Saki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alice_saki/32/486142_2.png) [@Alice\_Saki](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alice_Saki)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 10:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/45 "2018-05-30T10:21:25Z")
Totally rubbish I havn’t found a single one! Oh wait do I need to undock? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 10:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/46 "2018-05-30T10:22:26Z")
> [@Alice\_Saki](#): > > Oh wait do I need to undock? Not if you buy them off the market, no. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 10:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/47 "2018-05-30T10:25:50Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > I was against a droprate of less than 1, or more than 1. I know. And while I don’t agree with your proposal, I never assumed that CCP would chose to launch their new product in a way that could only create rage amongst players by combining lower than 1 droprate inside AD and maybe 1-2% droprate in Data Sites. According to people who are presumeably western US TZ CCP changed filament droprates in Data Sites now. Good, but why not do that from the beginning if the consequences are so clear? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 10:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/48 "2018-05-30T10:27:44Z")
Cos people like you refused to discuss my linear model without trolling instead hoping for a high rate of multiple filament drops. Now you reap what you sowed. ---
**Author:** ![Dantelion\_Shinoni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dantelion_shinoni/32/383315_2.png) [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dantelion_Shinoni)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 10:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/49 "2018-05-30T10:28:40Z")
To be clear about this. Filaments are dropping from Data sites right? ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 10:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/50 "2018-05-30T10:28:57Z")
> [@JuuR\_Zibaoo](#): > > i found 13 filament in 20 sites … so … very easy … 2 WH and a few LS systems … that was easy … So how about being grateful to the people who have the balls and open their mouth? Where do you think EVE would be now without players raging about things that are not right? Your lazy carebear ass profits from our rage, get that in your head. Your “but I have found something” rethoric which ignores that people had to rage for a change of droprate to happen, is nothing but cheap appeasement after the fight has been fought. If it was for people with your mindset, we wouldn’t have democracy in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 10:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/51 "2018-05-30T10:31:00Z")
> [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](#): > > Filaments are dropping from Data sites right? Yes. Data Sites, but not in Guristas unless that has been fixed. Some people reported findings in Relic Sites, but it could be a hoax. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 10:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/52 "2018-05-30T10:59:05Z")
You don’t rage, complain or whine that DED sites are not guaranteed to drop valuable loots? Or that not every stage of escalations lead to the next one? Or That ghost and sleeper sites are rare enough that you cant specialize in only running those? So why when this new content is rare like ghost sites, not guaranteed to drop stuff or escalate you suddenly rage and complain. At least it complies with all the PVE activities already in game. I think less than 1 filament is fair. I think the less loot drops the higher the price, and its fair. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/53 "2018-05-30T11:01:28Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > … You and some others: - Spammed false flags on my posts. - Accused me of spamming. (which I did not) - Accused me of ignoring rebuttals. (which I did not) - Accused me of ignoring parallel discussion on difficulty of sites, loot drops and mutaplasmid success %. (I did not ignore them, I read them all, but the filament model was most important to get right, so I focused on that.) **Maybe now you realize why I so stressed and tried to raise the issue of filament droprate model.** It was **THE MOST** important issue to discuss at the time. It is the root/seed from which the entire AD content system propagates. YOU did this, to yourself. YOU tried to shut me down, for focusing on this core, seminal issue. Now you reap what you sow. * * * I know why it went this way. People, especially in Player NS, drooled over the idea of generating endless amounts of filaments, from an original stack, and being able to run them non-stop in their most secure system. Thats why they wanted multiple filaments. What you failed to account for, was that RNG would include a chance you get NO filaments. Yes, Im genuinely laughing in schadenfreude considering the ■■■■ you guys put me through. Next time focus less on trolling, and your own vested interests, and more on the topic. PS: I TOLD YOU SO. /drops mic ----\> ---
**Author:** ![mkint](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkint/32/14424_2.png) [@mkint](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/mkint)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/54 "2018-05-30T11:03:27Z")
Sometimes I wonder if CCP is allergic to success. ---
**Author:** ![Alice\_Saki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alice_saki/32/486142_2.png) [@Alice\_Saki](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alice_Saki)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/55 "2018-05-30T11:11:54Z")
Working as intended 😉 _Warps away_ ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/56 "2018-05-30T11:15:56Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > You don’t rage, complain or whine that DED sites are not guaranteed to drop valuable loots? Or that not every stage of escalations lead to the next one? Or That ghost and sleeper sites are rare enough that you cant specialize in only running those? > > So why when this new content is rare like ghost sites, not guaranteed to drop stuff or escalate you suddenly rage and complain. At least it complies with all the PVE activities already in game. I think less than 1 filament is fair. I think the less loot drops the higher the price, and its fair. I certainly didn’t rage about low loot droprates _inside_ Abyssal Deadspace or any other form of PVE for that matter. Low droprates are okay, if they concern the actual content. The influx of items can be managed by setting a low enough droprate of loot together with a high enough difficulty of the sites, both of which is perfectly possible with AD. What me and many others were raging about was the decision to lock that new content away by making people grind old content. Nothing else. Regarding your examples. I don’t personally care enough about any of the PVE you mentioned, apart from doing Ghost Sites in a frigate because at least that provides a tiny bit of a thrill. None of them fits the comparison to what was the problem with Filament drops though. The content and challenge of Abyssal Deadspace should be _inside_ the Sites, not the grind of old mechanics to get there. After all this was announced as a completely new way of doing things not a copycat of DED Sites or escalations. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhir/32/379234_2.png) [@Mizhir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhir)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/57 "2018-05-30T11:22:45Z")
In pretty much every other MMO people overfarm any new content the first few days after it’s released. And EVE is, as you can see, not an exception. Just wait a few days and let it calm down, or go to quieter space instead. When I did it I saw loads of people in highsec scanning for sites. More people doing it = More competition = Harder to find. It’s not rocket science. It’s just working as intended. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/58 "2018-05-30T11:24:49Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > I know why it went this way. > People, especially in Player NS, drooled over the idea of generating endless amounts of filaments, from an original stack, and being able to run them non-stop in their most secure system. Thats why they wanted multiple filaments. Well then I guess you must have been happy when CCP locked the content away for everyone. And it really shows the core ideological problem that your argument has: you don’t think about balance, you think only from the perspective of not letting Nullsec gain more power. Funny enough, your mind tricked you. If CCP had introduced a way for people to non-stop perma-farm those sites (which I am against), why should people in Null bother to run them instead of making dank Rorqual or Hel ticks? After all, there are enough Highsec monkeys who would perma-farm them as well and as we all know people in HS are not organized enough to make sure their own work stays worth something, instead they’d compete each other to the point that running an AFK VNI in Null would bring in more dough than running Trig Space mid-tier. The balancing of this new content is difficult and your polemic against Null and fear-mongering did not help. ---
**Author:** ![JuuR\_Zibaoo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/juur_zibaoo/32/375053_2.png) [@JuuR\_Zibaoo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JuuR_Zibaoo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/59 "2018-05-30T11:28:24Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > So how about being grateful to the people who have the balls and open their mouth? Where do you think EVE would be now without players raging about things that are not right? Your lazy carebear ass profits from our rage, get that in your head. > > Your “but I have found something” rethoric which ignores that people had to rage for a change of droprate to happen, is nothing but cheap appeasement after the fight has been fought. If it was for people with your mindset, we wouldn’t have democracy in the real world. an now i am a bad bad carebear who only profits because of you? rofl you dont even have arguments … you brought nothing to the bord what proves there is something wrong … droprates are droprates … sometimes you get something … sometimes not … it is what it is … you rage because you was unlucky and others not … maybe it was your own fault … who knows … blaming CCP for not get enough stuff is the easy way … my droprate was good … better then expected … i thought that maybe a quater of all sites drop a tier 1 filament … hey i was over 50% … nice … thanks but it will not be that way all the time … should i cry about a bad droprate tomorrow or just take what i get and go on with the game? i guess that the droprate works as planed … so it was bad luck no need to cry just go on with doing whatever you did befor you wantet 100 filaments and run the sites for huge loot and then make a lot of isk in the beginning … thats all … after 2 weeks you would not go on with it because the price went down … you dont fly to jita to make 500mill you wrote that … what have you expected? to find a new battleship in the first pocket? rofl i am really not sorry you had bad luck but you didnt learn you just blame others thats really a joke as the subject says but unfortunately for you you are the joke dont waste your time rage about the stupid stuff here … go run sites or do carrier ratting or whatever … i think a too high droprate is not good and i was definitely on the upper limit yesterday … will not happen again i think you just want it easy … not too much effort but a lot of isk … that what you want … your range will not change anything > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > What me and many others were raging about was the decision to lock that new content away by making people grind old content. why? any point why not use a lod mechanic? you can buy filaments on the market … you dont need to run the sites to get em … this thread is a joke your behavior is like a 3 year old child who didnt got the cookie because mum said no > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Well then I guess you must have been happy when CCP locked the content away for everyone. And it really shows the core ideological problem that your argument has: you don’t think about balance, you think only from the perspective of not letting Nullsec gain more power. you really dont get it … it is about the balance … the thing not every site drops a filament and not all AD pocket drops a filament IS THE BALANCE … thats the only reason but you dont get that in 10 years because you dont want … you want EVE in the way you want it not CCP want it … > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > when CCP locked the content away for everyone. why is it locked away from everybody? explain that … please JuuR ---
**Author:** ![Nico\_Boru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nico_boru/32/64941_2.png) [@Nico\_Boru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nico_Boru)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/60 "2018-05-30T11:34:01Z")
Aw damn. So many tears theyre worthless on the market. Slogs through the flood in chest waders away from this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Rovinia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rovinia/32/483428_2.png) [@Rovinia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rovinia)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383/61 "2018-05-30T11:34:49Z")
The market will be full of cheap filaments in a week or two, so chill. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abysmal-joke-joy-how-a-great-idea-can-fail-so-hard-or-be-great-after-all/79383.md?page=4)