# Abyss T4 & T5 Isk/Hour? **URL:** \ **Category:** Missions\ **Created:** [July 19, 2018, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759 "2018-07-19T12:16:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/21 "2018-07-23T02:56:55Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > You know what the alternative was? Limiting T4/T5 to low/null/WH space. So you can be happy that the “lobby” helped allowing the higher tiers in highsec. You know, better yet why they don’t just come out and say and make it all official, let people like us finally be done with this and ■■■■ stay here with ■■■■. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 7:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/22 "2018-07-23T07:59:24Z")
What do you mean with “official”? The discussion of this particular point was more or less public on Fanfest (Q&A + round table). ---
**Author:** ![Chocolaty\_Sprogmaster](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chocolaty_sprogmaster/32/73586_2.png) [@Chocolaty\_Sprogmaster](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chocolaty_Sprogmaster)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/23 "2018-07-24T00:02:33Z")
Burner missions don’t even compare. For one, people that did them on Sisi were farming them for insane isk from day 1. Secondly, they are fixed spawns with fixed, good rewards. You always know what you’re going into on a burner, and you know you’re going to get well compensated. They can also all be done in ships that are paid for in a negligible amount of said burner runs, guaranteed. In Abyssmal Derpspace on the other hand, the pendulum of random swings way too wide. If you’re lucky you can get super easy spawns and several hundred mil of loot in a pocket. On the other hand, you can get 3x terrible spawns in a row that 5 bil ship can barely do, and get less reward than the price of the filament. The reward is way too inconsistent with the RNG risk, and most ships cannot be fit to handle every possible combo, so its not something “you will learn” like is the case with Burners. Burners, if you fit a ship that can do it, you can do it every time as long as you don’t screw up. Even if you DO screw up, you can warp in an alt/friend in an ECM ship/random frig to get aggro off you to warp out. If you run into a bad situation/spawn/disconnect in Abyssmal space, sorry, you just lost X isk and there’s no guarantee the last 20 hours of chain running sites will have paid for it. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 1:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/24 "2018-07-24T01:39:11Z")
> [@Chocolaty\_Sprogmaster](#): > > you can warp in an alt/friend I think that is the most important difference. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/25 "2018-07-26T11:55:43Z")
Nope. Most important difference is: burners are not that random as abyssal space. It’s guarantee loss sometimes, exprience with it has nothing to do with it. You just die. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/26 "2018-07-26T12:14:10Z")
and if you were able to bring in a friend, there would not be garantee loss. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/27 "2018-07-26T14:52:54Z")
It’s designed as solo arenas not multiboxing/botting content. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/28 "2018-07-26T14:56:34Z")
and that’s the main difference with burners ---
**Author:** ![Chocolaty\_Sprogmaster](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chocolaty_sprogmaster/32/73586_2.png) [@Chocolaty\_Sprogmaster](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chocolaty_Sprogmaster)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/29 "2018-07-26T22:19:52Z")
and yet the difficulty can range, in the same level/type filament, between “launch drones and AFK” to “No matter what I do I probably die”. The RNG level is stupidly high and no amount of experience changes that, and the loot also doesn’t reflect it. I just did ~15 T3s over the last day to see if anything has changes, and most of these I’m getting 0-5m over the cost of the filament (some are even negative). Easiest spawn I’ve gotten is 3x drone spawns where I could literally AFK each pocket and win. Hardest I got a stupid Drifter battleship that spawned 70KM away + 8 (yes EIGHT in a t3) neuting cruisers. I almost died in this one in a Gila that can handle most T4s and some T5s. Total loot value in this one? Less than 5 mil and some useless ass ammo blueprints. The only time you get anything remotely valuable is when an unstable mutaplasmid drops, or one of like 3 skill books that haven’t totally tanked yet. The balance is incredibly out of whack and these rare drops do not even come close to making up for the risk, time spent, and ship investment compared to pretty much anything else in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Khudo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khudo/32/80737_2.png) [@Khudo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khudo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 12:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/30 "2018-07-29T12:58:05Z")
Hi again. I stalked (in game) people that were giving negative answers about how abyssal sites are not rewarding. The truth is that a couple af them are doing T4/5 Abyssal on a regular basis. I believe the majority of players here gives an honest answer. Howewer a few are lying on purpose. I guess they are making ■■■■ tons of isks and don’t want to share… I won’t tell names but you can try the same (stalking). For me the thread is closed… (please no drama) You may be interested by this though: Regards. ---
**Author:** ![Eternal\_Montage](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eternal_montage/32/425678_2.png) [@Eternal\_Montage](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eternal_Montage)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/31 "2018-07-29T14:22:48Z")
> [@Khudo](#): > > I stalked (in game) people that were giving negative answers about how abyssal sites are not rewarding. _Slow clap…_ That’s incredible. Is this the reason you made the thread? ---
**Author:** ![Khudo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khudo/32/80737_2.png) [@Khudo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khudo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/32 "2018-07-29T15:21:28Z")
Not at all. I was surprised by the lack of clear, benevolant, answer and found that suspicious. I’m playing again after years and i’m just searching how to make isks in a way it suits me. That’s all. Regards. ---
**Author:** ![CHAKA\_1130](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chaka_1130/32/90823_2.png) [@CHAKA\_1130](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CHAKA_1130)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 11:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/33 "2018-08-15T11:19:19Z")
@Khudo im doing lvl3’s for a while now and my earnings are about 80mil/hour. i left abyssal space with 5mil in loot and another time with 600mil in loot. so you just got the be lucky. best luck you can get in a t3 is finding a juicy unstabel mutaplasmid. so for your question i believe isk/hour for t4’s must be around 200mil/hour (if you do 4 or 5 filaments). and thats a minimum. grts chaka1130 ---
**Author:** ![TheBank\_Manager](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thebank_manager/32/74121_2.png) [@TheBank\_Manager](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TheBank_Manager)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/34 "2018-08-15T13:49:47Z")
I can run T5’s (use a max blinged +implanted + drugged ship ) \> and you get about 150mil average if you know what you’re doing, adjust your strategy for every spawn combo -\> you cant scale this up as a single mistake will cost you billions… Though my cargo looks fat from loot after a few hours of doing T5s - what some people forget to mention is that you are using a filament worth 10-40mil each time you go in / either you buy it and spend the isk upfront … or it drops and you use it again ( and you gain zero net profit) \> the good old " i mined the minerals so the ship is free" arguments… 50% of the drops you get are just a waste - finding ammo bpc and decayed mutas in a T5 is just depressing, some abys runs cost you more then what you pull out of them and some give you a nice drop… on average you gain “value” but it just isn’t worth the trouble/risk/investment atm. \> T3’s are better as you can find that lucky unstable drop and it’ll put you well beyond your initial filament costs - This isn’t the case in T5s since every abys run costs you a good chunk. after running 200+ T5 abys sites and not losing a single ship in them I know it’s not worth it vs the other options to make isk. I can only advice to farm T3’s and hope for those lucky drops… hint \> fit several alts in farm gilas/ishtars and run multiple abys T3s at the same time \> I ended up running 6 of them simultanious in highsec -\> pop filament- drop drones -appraoch gate and tractor the loot can before going to the next room until ccp makes T4 and T5’s exclusive drops + makes the trig ships better for pvp (so they get used frequently) + makes building materials drop in logaritmic scale (so mass T1-T3 farms dont fill the entire production procces) it’s just not going to be worth running T5 ( and T4"s) vs the T3’s ---
**Author:** ![Frothgar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/frothgar/32/372505_2.png) [@Frothgar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Frothgar)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/35 "2018-08-15T15:16:42Z")
Done a couple hundred 5s and 4s, its stressful… IMO it feels like super ratting, but with a lot more risk. Total setup, is ~8bil, Drugs are absolutely mandatory for 5s. If I subtract cost of drugs, I’d say ballpark… probably 250-400mil/hr depending on drops. 4s, feel like around half that, average close to 200mil/hr maybe, drugs aren’t necessary if the ship is blingy enough. My concern is with 5s, there are basically 2 viable ships, Gila and Sac. The ewar eliminates near every turret based setup (Yes there is a polarized Deimos fit, but nothing else is viable) I’d really encourage an effort on CCP’s part to iterate on the e-war as its currently a Drone/Missiles only bit of content. I’d encourage evaluate TDs and Neuts specifically and maybe compensate with upping the DPS as a whole. Edit: Filament cost obviously make this less, but I’m among the only one who runs 5s in an area where folks run lots of 3s, I sell 3s, or trade for 5s, totally not a thing in most area but that mitigates probably another -50mil/hr sink. I also tend to gravitate to sites that are really dangerous to most folks and so the filaments are cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![R1DYARD](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/r1dyard/32/88677_2.png) [@R1DYARD](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/R1DYARD)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/36 "2018-08-17T19:47:51Z")
> [@Frothgar](#): > > Done a couple hundred 5s and 4s, its stressful… IMO it feels like super ratting, but with a lot more risk. > Total setup, is ~8bil, Drugs are absolutely mandatory for 5s. If I subtract cost of drugs, I’d say ballpark… probably 250-400mil/hr depending on drops. I would have to agree with Frothgar on this. As for the ISK/hr ratio… The randomness is so extreme that at this particular point in time, ISK per hour should not be a thought. (IMO) Example of Randomness: For 1 hour everything could be going fine, you could be running t5 sites back to back with no issues. Then, hour 2 arrives and you see “Socket Closed” pop up in your face. That previous hour of running the sites means nothing. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Eternal\_Montage](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eternal_montage/32/425678_2.png) [@Eternal\_Montage](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eternal_Montage)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 11:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/37 "2018-08-17T23:11:19Z")
> [@R1DYARD](#): > > Then, hour 2 arrives and you see “Socket Closed” pop up in your face. That previous hour of running the sites means nothing. 😃 Pretty sure he was talking about reward randomness, not spawn randomness. Even though spawns are random. Let’s clarify. @Frothgar @TheBank_Manager How often do you guys lose ships? ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 11:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/38 "2018-08-17T23:59:33Z")
> [@Chocolaty\_Sprogmaster](#): > > The only time you get anything remotely valuable is when an unstable mutaplasmid drops, or one of like 3 skill books that haven’t totally tanked yet. The balance is incredibly out of whack and these rare drops do not even come close to making up for the risk, time spent, and ship investment compared to pretty much anything else in the game. Don’t forget most important of all, the overall stress and dissapointment it causes. It is afterall a video game and needs to provide first and foremost to the reasons why people play video games, not opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Chocolaty\_Sprogmaster](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chocolaty_sprogmaster/32/73586_2.png) [@Chocolaty\_Sprogmaster](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chocolaty_Sprogmaster)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/39 "2018-08-19T22:06:44Z")
Pretty much. I personally love a challenge, but only when its due to player skill and not RNG, and/or the rewards reflect the challenge. Barely scraping by a filament that has 3 battleship + mass ewar rooms and then getting less in loot than the filament cost is bad and CCP should be ashamed that it’s even possible. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 11:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759/40 "2018-08-19T23:00:56Z")
The future of pve m8. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyss-t4-t5-isk-hour/90759.md?page=3)