# Abyssal losses are happening **URL:** \ **Category:** PvE Ships & Modules\ **Created:** [May 30, 2018, 3:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423 "2018-05-30T03:43:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Soldarius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/soldarius/32/313493_2.png) [@Soldarius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Soldarius)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/21 "2018-05-30T14:43:14Z")
Isk =/= items. You transfered isk to another player in exchange for items. Only the items are lost. Not the isk. The other player still has your isk. ---
**Author:** ![Obil\_Que](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/obil_que/32/171329_2.png) [@Obil\_Que](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Obil_Que)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/22 "2018-05-30T14:45:21Z")
> [@erg\_cz](#): > > Ok, once more, with a bit simplifier approach. You have 4 apples in one pocket. 4 ISK for each. You also have 4 ISK in other pocket. So you have 8 ISK all together. Now you lose 4 apples. Abyss eats them completely. Your granny gave you 1 apple cause insurance. You still need 3 more apples. So you take 3 ISK from the other pocket and gave them to apple seller. You have 5 ISK now. Seller still have what he has had before, though not in form of apples but in fom of ISK. 3 ISK removed from the system. Wrong. You have 8 ISK from your apple shennanigans and have 4 apples. Total ISK in game: 8 You lose 4 apples. Total ISK in game: 8 You get 1 apple from granny and buy 3 apples. Apple seller now has 3 ISK. You have 5. Total ISK in game: 8 No ISK was removed from the universe. It only changed pockets. An ISK sink is when ISK is removed from the universe by giving it to NPCs. An ISK faucet is when ISK is entered into the universe by getting it from NPCs. ---
**Author:** ![Obil\_Que](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/obil_que/32/171329_2.png) [@Obil\_Que](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Obil_Que)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/23 "2018-05-30T14:46:59Z")
> [@Hidden\_Markov](#): > > Been a way awhile and not up to speed on all dev blogs yet. Did I miss one where I get full money back from insurance on say my…1.5 billion isk rattlesnake with another 1 billion in implants back? Items are not ISK. ISK is created when the NPCs give it to you (ie: insurance). No ISK was removed from the game when your items exploded. You already gave that ISK to another player earlier when you bought them. ---
**Author:** ![Jasdemi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jasdemi/32/77975_2.png) [@Jasdemi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jasdemi)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/24 "2018-05-30T15:00:18Z")
ISK is NOT removed from the game when ships get destroyed, insurance payout actually add more ISK into the game. I bet you’re that kinda clueless guy who thinks that mined minerals are free. ---
**Author:** ![erg\_cz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erg_cz/32/392645_2.png) [@erg\_cz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/erg_cz)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/25 "2018-05-30T15:00:59Z")
> [@Obil\_Que](#): > > Total ISK in game: 8 > > No ISK was removed from the universe. It only changed pockets. Ok, I see you point. Apparently I used wrong words to describe my view of the situation. What I wnated to say, is that Abyss is very benefitial to the game economy, cause it fixes the gap between “produced” and “destroyed” to certain degree. ---
**Author:** ![Obil\_Que](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/obil_que/32/171329_2.png) [@Obil\_Que](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Obil_Que)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/26 "2018-05-30T15:02:45Z")
> [@erg\_cz](#): > > Ok, I see you point. Apparently I used wrong words to describe my view of the situation. What I wnated to say, is that Abyss is very benefitial to the game economy, cause it fixes the gap between “produced” and “destroyed” to certain degree. I like to say it is a personal wealth destroyer 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/27 "2018-05-30T15:07:03Z")
They’re not. So it’s a _material_ sink. However, the only ISK that leaves the game is the ISK which leaves as a market fee when the goods were first purchased. ISK enters the game from insurance when the ship explodes. Sure, with T2 and faction, it’s not a lot of ISK. For T1 it’s 60%+ ---
**Author:** ![Brody\_Metesur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brody_metesur/32/74351_2.png) [@Brody\_Metesur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brody_Metesur)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/28 "2018-05-30T15:09:51Z")
If you are looking at production you make a lot less. Probably 20% for a good BPO in a good market. Assuming a flat and completely stable market only 20% and per all the faqs I read most people consider 20% quite good for manufacturing. More products moving means more taxes, broker fees etc. This is as simplified as possible because there are a lot of other variables which make things far more complex. In this theoretical example where the items are instantly created for 80% of the value sold and sold automatically with no owner interaction when a module is purchased . So when mods and cargo purchased is destroyed only 20% value remains. In most cases it will be a good deal less. Selling items looted however, is far more profitable and much more reliant on how much time the seller put in farming to get the saleable items. As for total effect on economy? Hard to say. More activity from players, increase in farming resources can compensate. What will the rewards / loot be valued at months down the line? Really it’s only a problem for the Big pants alliance folk to try and figure out to gain advantages over their competition and enemies. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/29 "2018-05-30T15:12:03Z")
Well, I didn’t know the new PvE content actually podded players until after I viewed the Kmail stats. That right there doesn’t encourage engaging with that content. Also if a Faction / Deadspace fit ship can’t even complete the sites, then that content is doomed to quickly become another fail just like Resource Wars. Obviously CCP in their haste have increased the difficulty level way above that of average players, not to mention rewards being severely nerfed. I gotta rate this expansion as being worse than Incarna. What a waste of time and Dev effort. And to think it’s all due to pro players with their theory crafting and speculation when it was first announced, then later with their feedback from running this content on the test server. Thanks a lot. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/30 "2018-05-30T15:26:37Z")
Oh yeah, I forgot the most important thing, gotta have a super computer to even engage in it. ---
**Author:** ![Nora\_Maldoran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nora_maldoran/32/399985_2.png) [@Nora\_Maldoran](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nora_Maldoran)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/31 "2018-05-30T15:30:28Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > That right there doesn’t encourage engaging with that content. It’s not that difficult to get into an empty clone, really… > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Also if a Faction / Deadspace fit ship can’t even complete the sites, then that content is doomed to quickly become another fail just like Resource Wars. Well, they can. But require quite some inidivudal skill and knowledge to adapt on the random part. The fits you see on the killmails are those that didn’t work obviously. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Obviously CCP in their haste have increased the difficulty level way above that of average players, You are aware of the fact that there are are five different levels of difficulty? ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/32 "2018-05-30T15:48:40Z")
Lol people still dying mostly to vedmaks even with 40% initial dmg reduced. People are just ■■■■ at micromanaging and it shows ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/33 "2018-05-30T16:27:16Z")
Not this same old Eve Fanboy drivel again. Despite your attempt to contradict and rationalize away all the points I brought up, the bottom line is this new content has been bent, broken and twisted so much by CCP that it’s no longer user friendly to the average player. ---
**Author:** ![Ildrara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ildrara/32/56659_2.png) [@Ildrara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ildrara)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 10:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/34 "2018-05-30T22:32:07Z")
> [@Soldarius](#): > > Only the items are lost. Not the isk. So fees are reimbursed somewhere? Where and how do I see those transactions? ---
**Author:** ![Omnathious\_Deninard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnathious_deninard/32/266675_2.png) [@Omnathious\_Deninard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnathious_Deninard)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/35 "2018-05-30T23:03:48Z")
Were sleeper caches friendly to the average player day one? Were incursions? Worm holes? ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/36 "2018-05-30T23:04:46Z")
Is there a question? ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 7:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/37 "2018-05-31T07:07:39Z")
> [@Nora\_Maldoran](#): > > As someone who has spent quite some time on the test server, I think this is pretty accurate. I don’t know how many I ended up running, would do 10-15 a day on weekends and 2-4 a day on weekdays but sometimes go up to 10 as well if my time allowed, my guess is around 120ish to 150ish total and I got my fits worked out too. ---
**Author:** ![Loreline\_Farcloud](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loreline_farcloud/32/69487_2.png) [@Loreline\_Farcloud](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loreline_Farcloud)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 8:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/38 "2018-05-31T08:29:11Z")
> [@Obil\_Que](#): > > Abyssal space is not an ISK sink. No ISK is being removed from the game. It is removing materials, ships, implants, etc. If anything it is probably an ISK faucet creating ISK from insurance payouts as people die. you clearly don’t understand the eve economy. ships and modules ARE isk. everything boils down to isk. and this is the biggest sink CCP has made in a long time and will go some way to tackle inflation in the eve market from botting! ---
**Author:** ![Tuttomenui\_II](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tuttomenui_ii/32/479440_2.png) [@Tuttomenui\_II](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tuttomenui_II)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 9:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/39 "2018-05-31T09:05:36Z")
If i give a million isk to that guy with the ratty sign at the dodixie undock, It wasn’t sunk, it was tranfered from me to him. If I bought a ship from same guy I gave him isk, and now have a ship, If I self destruct the ship I lose the ship and isk is added to the game from insurance. So it is a material sink, and an isk faucet. ---
**Author:** ![Loreline\_Farcloud](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loreline_farcloud/32/69487_2.png) [@Loreline\_Farcloud](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loreline_Farcloud)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 9:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423/40 "2018-05-31T09:09:02Z")
You are talking across purposes about two different things. How you obtain the ship/modules/implants you use and subsequently lose in the abyss has no relevance to the fact that they are lost. Thus an isk sink, as all modules have an associated isk value. The loss of modules IS the loss of isk. But that is a good thing. It combats inflation of the market through free isk production - aka mining. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/abyssal-losses-are-happening/79423.md?page=3)