# (Actually) Interesting Ideas for Ending the Amarr-Minmatar Conflict **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263 "2017-11-28T22:27:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pieter_tuulinen/32/155371_2.png) [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pieter_Tuulinen)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/341 "2017-12-07T21:54:03Z")
To be fair, Aldrith, the Matari aren’t saying you can’t have slaves - they’re saying you can’t have Matari slaves who aren’t criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/342 "2017-12-07T21:59:55Z")
This still does not matter. Our faith states that we do have that right so long as those enslaved are of heathen ancestry and belief, Minmatar or not. It is a major concession to willfully go against that and free them regardless, hence why it is completely reasonable to expect major concessions in return. There are many aspects to this problem, and we have not even gotten to discussing the Amarr side of the issue since we are still stuck debating whether or not the Republic should even be involved. The Minmatar argue no as a matter of pride, the Amarr argue no as a matter of the Reclaiming. I argue internally that freeing the Minmatar can aid the Reclaiming in the long-term and gain us peace in the short term so that we may concentrate on more immediate threats. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/343 "2017-12-07T22:09:01Z")
> [@Samira\_Kernher](#): > > It is illegal. By interstellar laws, which CONCORD oversaw and Imperial representatives signed. Those laws might be ignored on a widespread level, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is illegal and those who support it in any way are sinners before God. Unless the Throne has decided that God wants CONCORD to be a ‘useful idiot’, a tool for preventing retribution, while the Empire ignores whatever commitments it feels aren’t in its interests. Which, you know, _fits_ the observed behavior of the Imperial Navy. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/344 "2017-12-07T22:11:15Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > a secularization of Reclaiming outside of the Empire this would require that those spreading the Amarr faith outside of the Empire not be agents of the Amarr Throne—and this is impossible, so long as the Amarr faith’s direction and guidance stems directly from the Amarr Throne. Thus: secularizing the Reclaiming outside of the Empire would require that civil war you’re never going to get. It would require the Amarr not be Amarr. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/345 "2017-12-07T22:15:31Z")
> [@Aergri\_Evingod](#): > > i bet it is some self fulfilling prove faith cycle. I’m not asking to prove faith, or proof of faith. I’m trying to get a grasp of Ms Jenneth’s understanding of faith. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/346 "2017-12-07T22:18:02Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > secularizing the Reclaiming outside of the Empire would require that civil war you’re never going to get. It would require the Amarr not be Amarr. The impasses just keep popping up. The Amarr seem have dug themselves a lidded hole impossible to breach, and the hole is quickly filling up with water. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/347 "2017-12-07T22:19:21Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > The impasses just keep popping up. The Amarr seem have dug themselves a lidded hole impossible to breach, and the hole is quickly filling up with water. This is nonsense. I’ve just explained how our faith can be interpreted to justify peace just as easily as war. Perceptions are in the process of changing, but we are on the correct trajectory. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/348 "2017-12-07T22:19:35Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > we are still stuck debating whether or not the Republic should even be involved. The Minmatar argue no as a matter of pride This is not at all true, Aldrith. It’s not an issue of pride to say that we can’t trust you. It’s not an issue of pride to say that expecting us to offer concessions to get you to stop abusing our people is offensive and counterproductive. It’s not an issue of pride to say that these are issues that need to be addressed _first_, so that the central issue can be tackled from a common framework. Otherwise, all we have is an untrustworthy abuser attempting to dictate terms for us to stop trying to end your abuses. And that is not a route that leads to anything but more resentment, violence, and eventually a war of extinction. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/349 "2017-12-07T22:21:17Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > I’ve just explained how our faith can be interpreted to justify peace just as easily as war. No, you’ve explained how your faith can be interpreted to engage in psychological war and cultural war, rather than a physically violent war. Your faith still calls for the ultimate eradication of all other faiths, cultures, and belief systems, everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/350 "2017-12-07T22:24:12Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > No, you’ve explained how your faith can be interpreted to engage in psychological war and cultural war, rather than a physically violent war. Even you cannot deny this is still a step forward. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/351 "2017-12-07T22:26:51Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > I’m trying to get a grasp of Ms Jenneth’s understanding of faith. Uh … since I guess you really do want to know… > [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > I had someone tell me that the Amarr have evidence of God. Does evidence weaken faith or make it stronger? What the Amarr take to be evidence of God isn’t very likely to be taken as evidence by people who aren’t already maybe a little predisposed to take it that way unless they’re kind of looking for something to believe in, and reasons to believe it (which come to think of it isn’t rare). A person filled to brimming with faith will look over a grove of trees, and see God there. A spiritual skeptic will look over the same, and see biology; and below that, chemistry; and below that, physics; and below that, math. Lots and lots of math. Of course, the math doesn’t really explain it all exactly; it’s more, I guess, the difference between seeing a plan and a phenomenon. If you look into something so complicated, it’s easy to see what you’re disposed towards seeing. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/352 "2017-12-07T22:28:30Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > > [@Samira\_Kernher](#): > > > > It is illegal. By interstellar laws, which CONCORD oversaw and Imperial representatives signed. Those laws might be ignored on a widespread level, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is illegal and those who support it in any way are sinners before God. > > Unless the Throne has decided that God wants CONCORD to be a ‘useful idiot’, a tool for preventing retribution, while the Empire ignores whatever commitments it feels aren’t in its interests. > > Which, you know, _fits_ the observed behavior of the Imperial Navy. Deception is a sin. Those who engage in it are criminals before God. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/353 "2017-12-07T22:28:34Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > Even you cannot deny this is still a step forward. Sure, on a mine with a delay trigger. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/354 "2017-12-07T22:29:22Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > Even you cannot deny this is still a step forward. No, it’s really not. It’s a step more treacherous and deceitful, nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/355 "2017-12-07T22:31:01Z")
> [@Samira\_Kernher](#): > > Deception is a sin. Those who engage with it are criminals before God. Unless the Empress decides that she and the Theology Council aren not sinning when they do it, and the Theology Council agrees. Because ultimately, Sami, it’s all still just humans in power, dictating God’s Will as being whatever will keep them in power. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/356 "2017-12-07T22:33:38Z")
Oh boy, here we go. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/357 "2017-12-07T22:35:00Z")
Hey, if you can offer definitive proof to the contrary… ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/358 "2017-12-07T22:40:57Z")
And maybe everyone in House Sarum is right. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/359 "2017-12-07T22:43:26Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > > [@Samira\_Kernher](#): > > > > Deception is a sin. Those who engage with it are criminals before God. > > Unless the Empress decides that she and the Theology Council aren not sinning when they do it, and the Theology Council agrees. Because ultimately, Sami, it’s all still just humans in power, dictating God’s Will as being whatever will keep them in power. Final judgment is God’s alone. Anything they have done will be accounted for. ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/360 "2017-12-07T22:49:11Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > And maybe everyone in House Sarum is right. I love my husband. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=17) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=19)