# (Actually) Interesting Ideas for Ending the Amarr-Minmatar Conflict **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263 "2017-11-28T22:27:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/361 "2017-12-07T22:52:03Z")
Well, I truly agree with having a strong military, upholding honor and smiting those who would dare attack or denigrate the Empire, but the Minmatar are a little different. Well, not Arrendis and Mizhara, but many of them. Mostly I just don’t want to have to deal with teaching trillions of people how to fold my underwear right after blowing up their homes and half their families, but that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/362 "2017-12-07T22:52:30Z")
Well, it shouldn’t come as a surprise that it’s taken untrustworthy when your own house is notorious for breaking the pacts and raiding within our borders. It seems a little insincere. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/363 "2017-12-07T23:04:20Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > This is nonsense. Well… I’m pulling my hair out here! Which is a shame as just had it done. > [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > I’ve just explained how our faith can be interpreted to justify peace just as easily as war. But outside the Empire it can’t be given a status or privilege above other religions. That’s all I’m saying. That’s the reality outside of the borders which protect the Amarr faith from other religions. I’m not going to argue other religion’s points of view, or how they can also be interpreted in any which way either, as that would be fruitless for both of us. > [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > Perceptions are in the process of changing, but we are on the correct trajectory. Maybe, but it’s so slow… ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/364 "2017-12-07T23:06:56Z")
Captain Newelle began this thread on his own accord. He also did so against my advice, not that it would reflect on my House, but because I thought it would be a futile exercise. Captain Newelle is not a Sarum, Del’thul, except by being my Lord Consort. His politics diverge greatly from mine and of my House. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/365 "2017-12-07T23:07:21Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > But outside the Empire it can’t be given a status or privilege above other religions. That’s all I’m saying. That’s the reality outside of the borders which protect the Amarr faith from other religions. And I would not expect it to. The Imperial Rite can prove itself superior in deed and word; it does not need an advantage handed to it. > [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > Maybe, but it’s so slow… Of course it’s slow. That is how it is in the Empire. Decades, centuries, millennia. That is how we think and act. Not seconds, minutes and days. We are aware of eternity. We act accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/366 "2017-12-07T23:09:40Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > What the Amarr take to be evidence of God isn’t very likely to be taken as evidence by people who aren’t already maybe a little predisposed to take it that way unless they’re kind of looking for something to believe in, and reasons to believe it (which come to think of it isn’t rare). Is that you, do you have a belief in “God as a reality, without proof?” I recall you calling yourself a spiritual skeptic before. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/367 "2017-12-07T23:10:36Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > His politics diverge greatly from mine and of my House. My politics, but not my deed. I still carry on the fight in the Praetoria’s name, and as part of your house, my lady. Whenever the courtiers snicker I just point to my place on our killboard. ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/368 "2017-12-07T23:12:26Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > My politics, but not my deed. I still carry on the fight in the Praetoria’s name, and as part of your house, my lady. > > Whenever the courtiers snicker I just point to my place on our killboard. I would never question your devotion to your duty, Husband, I pray you did not think I was slighting you. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/369 "2017-12-07T23:15:43Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > my place on our killboard. You know… I can’t… it’s just _too_ easy. > [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > I recall you calling yourself a spiritual skeptic before. Aria’s not Amarr, she’s Achuran, she just works in Amarr. > [@Samira\_Kernher](#): > > Final judgment is God’s alone. Anything they have done will be accounted for. Fair point, and I’d expect nothing less than a truly admirable level of faith and clarity from you. But that doesn’t mean we should trust the Empire to not be committing this particular sin when they so evidently _are_. Or that Aldrith is in any way ignorant of this, or the organizational infrastructure that would need to be devoted to these ‘rogue elements’. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/370 "2017-12-07T23:15:43Z")
Of course not, that was just in case that hussy Lady Xaria cul-Sarum was watching. I bet she thinks her hair is better than mine too… ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/371 "2017-12-07T23:16:55Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > I bet she thinks her hair is better than mine too… Well, that would patently be a lie, and thus, sinful. Quick! To the cleansing pits with her! ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/372 "2017-12-07T23:17:12Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Or that Aldrith is in any way ignorant of this, or the organizational infrastructure that would need to be devoted to these ‘rogue elements’. I’m not, but they are an equal sin to the Republic’s raids in Imperial territory. So perhaps we can call it even on that front and move on to other things? > [@Arrendis](#): > > Well, that would patently be a lie, and thus, sinful. Quick! To the cleansing pits with her! Damn right. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/373 "2017-12-07T23:18:42Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > So perhaps we can call it even on that front and move on to other things? Except for the bit where you’re saying ‘you should trust us while we blatantly lie to you’. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/374 "2017-12-07T23:19:25Z")
I’m not blatantly lying, the idiots violating our treaties are. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/375 "2017-12-07T23:24:24Z")
All well and good, but he’s still propping up the child-murderer’s house through action and position. He’s _hardly_ opposing it. This makes his words lack a certain amount of sincerity when he speaks on matters of my people. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/376 "2017-12-07T23:25:43Z")
Still declared for Kor-Azor. Still advocating peace and supporting the Pax Amarria and CONCORD as a peacekeeping force. Still don’t invade Minmatar space, choosing only to defend and retake Amarr space in the warzone. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/377 "2017-12-07T23:28:21Z")
and the officer corps that they’re getting orders from, and all of the officers not reporting these violations to the upper Admiralty… … do you really think the Empress doesn’t know about them? So if, as seems likely, this goes all the way to the top… how can the Empire ever be trusted? ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/378 "2017-12-07T23:31:15Z")
It definitely does not go all the way to the top, because Heideran VII and Doriam II would have never condoned them. I can understand an outsider distrusting Jamyl I or even Catiz I as she is yet unproven, but not those two. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/379 "2017-12-07T23:31:29Z")
I’m afraid I don’t find any of that particularly convincing when all of that _still_ props up a house and system that systematically breaks and enslaves people. No, Aldrith… I’m genuinely sorry here, but your words throughout this thread and elsewhere have reeked of dishonesty. You trot out the old “Oh they’re criminals” line while knowing it’s impossible for them to pull that crap off without official support. The woman who trots around with your genitals in a pouch around her neck is Sarum, the house of the child murderess. … your words can’t be trusted. They do not align with your actions. Your intent for my people does not seem any kind of sincere, nor your intent with this thread when you’re demanding absolutely ridiculous concessions _to get out of your own people’s crimes._ … trust isn’t a possibility when these things hold true. Edit: Ironically, that harpy you’re shacked up with is rather refreshing in that her hostility is far more honest. I’d absolutely love to throttle her until her head pops, but there’s still something relaxing about an honest and straightforwards enemy that doesn’t think enough of me to even bother lying. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/380 "2017-12-07T23:31:36Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > Is that you, do you have a belief in “God as a reality, without proof?” I recall you calling yourself a spiritual skeptic before. In short, no. … as Arrendis noted, I’m a _Shuijing_-sect Achur, which makes me a little like an atheist whose focus is actually someplace else completely. I don’t think one should demand proof from gods, though, and don’t resent believers. I just see gods, or God, as useful symbols and metaphors instead of literal beings. In the god of Amarr, I see an amazingly powerful societal unifier and anchor. If I accept that unifying humanity under one nation is a worthy goal, something like this would be, probably, a necessary component. I might consider formal conversion, to aid this project on its way, only … … I don’t believe. That’s kind of a problem for the Amarr, and I’m not prepared to lie to them about what I really believe in. They seem to admire that a little, so, it works out. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=18) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=20)