# (Actually) Interesting Ideas for Ending the Amarr-Minmatar Conflict **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263 "2017-11-28T22:27:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/41 "2017-11-29T13:49:34Z")
I accept and even readily agree that my “plan” isn’t particularly realistic. It’s not supposed to be a fully formed foolproof itinerary. It’s a discussion piece that moves things beyond the two sides going “no u” and actually considers possible options. Debate finds the answers that both sides are looking for. By talking about an outlandish idea, both sides get a clearer of view of what they and their opponents actually want. What they consider acceptable. Do I think what I suggested will actually happen? Spirits no. But _parts_ of it might lay the foundations for what is later considered to be a Good Idea that both sides can actually agree on. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/42 "2017-11-29T15:55:11Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > The more I write in this the more complicated I see it is. Not impossibly so, but there are definitely challenges. So, I think I’ll stop here and think about this some more. I am pleased to see the purpose of this thread is being fulfilled. As I read through the majority of these proposals (presented by Minmatar negotiating for favorable terms for their people) I feel I should remind you of the fifth rule I laid out: > [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > Any demand of concession towards one side of the conflict should be balanced with an equal concession from the other. If your peace plans involve one side giving up everything and the other nothing, it is a useless peace plan. Emancipation of all Minmatar on any set timescale that is not in the hands of individual Holders and when they see their charges fit to be released is a major concession that will have to be enforced by the Empire, and the Republic will have to give something major in return for it to be not rejected outright. What would the Republic (or even the Federation) be willing to concede in return for this act? ---
**Author:** ![Elmund\_Egivand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elmund_egivand/32/11038_2.png) [@Elmund\_Egivand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elmund_Egivand)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/43 "2017-11-29T16:03:41Z")
Well, what does the Empire want in return? We need to see a list of demands the Empire will produce before we work out reasonable compromises and concessions. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/44 "2017-11-29T16:05:27Z")
Is not shooting at them not enough? Its hard to offer anything in return if only one side has a tangible item to offer. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/45 "2017-11-29T16:06:24Z")
I have a few ideas. More to come later. ---
**Author:** ![Sah\_Phyre](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sah_phyre/32/378085_2.png) [@Sah\_Phyre](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sah_Phyre)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/46 "2017-11-29T16:14:36Z")
I rather like the idea of a “New Ammatar” buffer state physically separating the Empire and the Republic, actually. If this political entity were to be formed on the condition of strict neutrality (and perhaps limits imposed on its military to make it a purely police/self-defense force), it would be the greatest achievement on the path to peace since the Yoiul. > [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > Perhaps this is an impossibility in the mindset and worldview of the Amarr? I’d say that quite a few of the vocal - like, foaming-at-the-mouth vocal - proponents of permanent slavery are those who approach it from a materialistic rather than spiritual angle, which doesn’t exactly give them a leg to stand on from the Scriptures’ point of view. The whole institution has been on a downturn ever since the end of the militant phase of the Reclaiming nearly two centuries ago and I see few signs that it’s going to rebound anytime soon. While screaming “end slavery now!” in the middle of Dam-Torsad will garner you little but odd looks and friendly advice to lay off the Mindflood, slavery is not meant to last forever - it is viewed as spiritual education and a sacred journey to freedom through attainment of enlightenment and piety. The Scripture doesn’t say _when_ will all slaves be freed, but it does say that it _will_ happen. Yes, there are those who don’t think into this deeply. Worse yet, there are those who would ignore or even pervert the whole idea. They and their actions do not speak for all of Empire, or the Scriptures. Neither do I, of course, so feel free to ignore everything I say. Anyway, the gist of the problem is that no matter what this emancipation process looks like, it’s going to take _centuries_ at the least - so that the sudden change in status and movement of populations doesn’t upset the economic and societal balance, the Holders concerned are appropriately compensated, the religious authorities are satisfied and so on. Any faster, and the Empire will likely implode and drag down the rest of the cluster with it. Among the virtues valuable among the Amarr, patience is probably the most important one. > [@Elmund\_Egivand](#): > > Well, what does the Empire want in return? We need to see a list of demands the Empire will produce before we work out reasonable compromises and concessions. Let’s start with the easy ones - complete disarmament and cessation of all support of anti-Empire terrorist groups; removal of all restrictions on practicing the Amarr Faith, if any, and a crackdown on any persecution of the faithful to prevent another Abel Jarek incident; economic stimulus packages for planets with large populations of the newly freed slaves and partial or full shouldering of the costs of resettlement for any that choose to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/47 "2017-11-29T16:40:33Z")
You seem to completely disregard the other, very important piece of the puzzle: Unless the emancipation announcement comes with declaration of the Reclaiming to be a thing of the past, emancipation itself holds little value, as the Empire still remains a threat to the whole cluster. I see little use in talking about emancipation of slaves if the main driving force behind the practice is not eradicated. What should the Republic concede? Nothing. They are not the ones who did anything wrong. What can the Minmatar give for the Amarr in exchange? A promise not to seek revenge for past injustices. And I think that’s plenty. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Leopardess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_leopardess/32/71864_2.png) [@The\_Leopardess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Leopardess)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/48 "2017-11-29T16:50:29Z")
Slaves may only be freed if they are of the true religion, and only by a holder by the grace of the Empress, who speaks for God himself. There is no alternative. Slaves must not be freed if they are in defiance of the almighty, unless a faithful is in danger otherwise. And spirit isn’t everything. Need I quote scripture on the importance of reality and materialism? God gave us a material universe. Pure spiritualists are Sabik scum, usually. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/49 "2017-11-29T16:53:59Z")
Under that same thought process, this is exactly why there will be no peace. Amarr does NOT speak for the Matari. Your religion is not ours. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Leopardess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_leopardess/32/71864_2.png) [@The\_Leopardess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Leopardess)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/50 "2017-11-29T16:57:32Z")
Agreed. It seems God wills that there be war. No surprise to me. We are in the crucible of his burning design for a reason, and I welcome the blessing. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/51 "2017-11-29T17:00:16Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > You seem to completely disregard the other, very important piece of the puzzle: Unless the emancipation announcement comes with declaration of the Reclaiming to be a thing of the past, emancipation itself holds little value, as the Empire still remains a threat to the whole cluster. I see little use in talking about emancipation of slaves if the main driving force behind the practice is not eradicated. The Reclaiming is never going away. You can eliminate the institution of slavery and wars of expansion, but the Reclaiming is the single most important element of the faith. It is not going anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/52 "2017-11-29T17:06:57Z")
Reclaiming also is the main motivator and justification for the enslavement of others, so if you can enlighten me how wars of expansion and slavery can be rooted out from the Empire without giving up Reclaiming, I’m all ears, honest. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/53 "2017-11-29T17:11:07Z")
The Reclaiming is the mission to bring all of creation back under God’s grace. It demands one united humanity, pure of spirit and faithful to God. Slavery and warfare are methods used in the pursuit of this mission. Particularly forceful ones. They are not the only methods through which it can be achieved. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/54 "2017-11-29T17:18:19Z")
The question is then… what will the Empire do when peaceful attempts at cultural domination and eradication of other faiths fails? ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/55 "2017-11-29T17:20:16Z")
Try harder. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/56 "2017-11-29T17:31:28Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > The question is then… what will the Empire do when peaceful attempts at cultural domination and eradication of other faiths fails? > [@Samira\_Kernher](#): > > Try harder. The Amarr aren’t stupid, and you don’t get to be an interstellar empire by being so. So if repeated efforts at “trying harder” fail will they continue to do so, abandon peaceful efforts, or abandon Reclaiming? ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/57 "2017-11-29T17:34:19Z")
Amarrians could be Reclaiming ritualistically by singing chants and preaching to the choir. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/58 "2017-11-29T17:35:27Z")
> [@Samira\_Kernher](#): > > The Reclaiming is the mission to bring all of creation back under God’s grace. It demands one united humanity, pure of spirit and faithful to God, > > Slavery and warfare are methods used in the pursuit of this mission. Particularly forceful ones. They are not the only methods through which it can be achieved. This sounds like an offer one can’t refuse, so, a huge problem persists _when people don’t want to be reclaimed_. And all historical records that I’m privy to have not once shown the Empire to apply “softer methods”, but always opting for the command and conquer -route. Minmatar, Ealur, Ni-Kunni, Udorians, and countless others whose names “weren’t even fit to be recorded”, all were only fit to be crushed under the bootheel of Amarr onslaught instead of these vaunted peaceful conversion methods. ---
**Author:** ![Chan\_aar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chan_aar/32/377560_2.png) [@Chan\_aar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chan_aar)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/59 "2017-11-29T17:35:52Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > or abandon Reclaiming? They can’t do that, it is the core of their belief system. Not unless the sefrim themselves descend from heaven and tell them to stop. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/60 "2017-11-29T17:37:37Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Amarrians could be Reclaiming ritualistically by singing chants and preaching to the choir. So, a symbolic Reclaiming? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=4)