# (Actually) Interesting Ideas for Ending the Amarr-Minmatar Conflict **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263 "2017-11-28T22:27:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 3:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/681 "2017-12-21T03:06:13Z")
> [@Haru\_kai\_Vidaraltyr](#): > > Since they rarely do anything without assessing the cost/benefit, that tells me that they think, for now, the Republic is not a partner they want. Or there is simply too much inertia for such an assessment. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 7:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/682 "2017-12-21T07:51:49Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > I really don’t see it that way, but alright, your pot to stew in. I am sorry for the repetition, everyone, but… Shutaq, one last time: It is not enough that you believe in what you have to say. Your way will only work if you can somehow make everyone else believe it too - and not just the Amarr, the Minmatar too. And obviously you are not making too much headway on that front. You have not even made any suggestion as to how that would be achievable, merely repeated variations of “oh just believe me”. Which, incidentally, because of historical reasons, is _not_ the way an Amarrian will ever convince us. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 9:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/683 "2017-12-21T09:02:15Z")
Dear Elmund, you are full of ■■■■. Someone beats you up and steals everything you own. You did not provoke this in any way. They did not steal your stuff because they needed them, but because another person told them to. Should you “seek compromise” with this person? No? Well why not? This is a bit of a poor comparison but should get the point across. ---
**Author:** ![Elmund\_Egivand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elmund_egivand/32/11038_2.png) [@Elmund\_Egivand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elmund_Egivand)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 9:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/684 "2017-12-21T09:38:27Z")
And again, how long ago did this happen? And again, how has holding onto this grudge helped us in any way? Are we any closer to getting all our people back by raging against the people who took them from us? Has all the bombings, all the revenge strikes, all of it get us any closer to the end goal of seeing every Matari walk without chains? In fact, when’s the last time you spare a thought towards the ones who are actually free but dispossessed, deprived, and in an even worse state than when they were still slaves? Stop with the raging, step back, reassess, and see if the current course helped. I did not see us getting any closer to that end goal with our course of action, and I am seeing us sacrificing what we already have for too little gain. Though, to the credit of our people, there are those in power who saw through the circus act and redirect their efforts to the care and maintenance of those who are already free. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 10:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/685 "2017-12-21T10:04:11Z")
> [@Elmund\_Egivand](#): > > And again, how long ago did this happen? In living memory. My grandparents were slaves. Your grandparents were slaves. There is no free Minmatar who doesn’t personally know someone who was enslaved. > [@Elmund\_Egivand](#): > > And again, how has holding onto this grudge helped us in any way? I don’t think it has. I’m just saying there are very good reasons for this grudge to exist. > [@Elmund\_Egivand](#): > > Are we any closer to getting all our people back by raging against the people who took them from us? Has all the bombings, all the revenge strikes, all of it get us any closer to the end goal of seeing every Matari walk without chains? “Raging against them…” This is what I meant when I said you are full of ■■■■. I have been saying the whole time that peace is an option, but not at any price. Aldrith’s plans in this thread will cripple the Republic economically while giving a boost to the Empire’s economy and by extention their military might. Please, don’t be this naive. > [@Elmund\_Egivand](#): > > In fact, when’s the last time you spare a thought towards the ones who are actually free but dispossessed, deprived, and in an even worse state than when they were still slaves? I’ve done more than spare a thought, I’ve actually helped them. You know, capsuleers can do that too. > [@Elmund\_Egivand](#): > > Stop with the raging, step back, reassess, and see if the current course helped. I did not see us getting any closer to that end goal with our course of action, and I am seeing us sacrificing what we already have for too little gain. The current course might not be the best, but at the moment it is the best of even worse alternatives. > [@Elmund\_Egivand](#): > > Though, to the credit of our people, there are those in power who saw through the circus act and redirect their efforts to the care and maintenance of those who are already free. Indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 10:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/686 "2017-12-21T10:08:57Z")
Spineless pissant. It’s happening _now_. Right now. As we speak. There are slaver raids within our borders and there’s countless people being broken and destroyed _right.fuckin.now._ “Let go of that which brings us unhappiness and misery”? That would mean letting go of _our blood and our people_. Because you and yours are too weak and pathetic to deal with the hardship of not having every resource of the Tribes at _your_ beck and call. Feh. But perhaps the oh-so-poor people who are free to stand tall and live their lives as they choose should have been abandoned and forsaken too, like you are advocating us “letting go” of those who now seek that very same freedom? Oh, no, I see. The line is drawn once you and yours have benefited from rising against the Empire. Once that’s done it’s time to stop, right. Craven selfish bastards like you are the reason the Empire thinks they can win. They know you will hem and haw and retreat at every turn, because it’d be _inconvenient_ to take a damned stand. _You_ are the reason this war is inevitable, you know. You advocate a path of perpetual compromise and withdrawal, until at the very end there’s only two options left. War or Complete Surrender. I wonder how quickly you will fall to your knees then, when there’s nowhere left to go? ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 10:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/687 "2017-12-21T10:34:43Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > … but we now must fight to defeat the greatest evils found in the cluster, not to carry on the Reclaiming. That _is_ carrying on the Reclaiming. ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/688 "2017-12-21T17:06:17Z")
It has been said here that Lord Consort Newelle is at worst a liar, or at best disingenuous. You people have no idea what you are saying. He is, and has been for as long as I have known him, a firm believer that your kind can be returned to God with nothing but words. “Winning of hearts and minds” as he calls it. Even for the most defiant of you he holds a minuscule sliver of hope. I obviously do not agree, yet I am insulted on his behalf of these accusations made. Lord Consort Newelle is a good and honourable man whose heart and kindness are a blessing to humanity. Seeing you heathens reject a shepherd in the darkness such as he only strengthens the resolve of my position. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/689 "2017-12-21T17:13:53Z")
There’s really no nice way to say this, but ■■■■ your God. I don’t want him near me or anyone I care about. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/690 "2017-12-21T17:19:43Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > He is, and has been for as long as I have known him, a firm believer that your kind can be returned to God with nothing but words. Which remains an active attempt at the obliteration of our beliefs, culture, and way of life. A war of extermination fought with words doesn’t make the losing nation any less extinct. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/691 "2017-12-21T17:34:53Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > Seeing you heathens reject a shepherd in the darkness such as he only strengthens the resolve of my position. Respectfully, Not every sheep wants a shepard, not every light leads to safety, not every word should be taken at face value. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/692 "2017-12-21T17:34:58Z")
Ah, shepherds in the darkness. It’s a remarkable thing to actually praise, isn’t it? I mean, I know you love the idea of keeping all the sheep nicely under control and ‘guiding’ them where you think they should go and so on. I know you perpetually keep them fearing the wolves out here in the dark. And so, you make sure all the little sheep spend their lives in fear of the wolf… before they get eaten by the shepherd. No no, I’m sure he’s _very_ trustworthy, when his actions and words are completely at odds. ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/693 "2017-12-21T17:40:27Z")
Bleat on, heathens, bleat on. ---
**Author:** ![Aergri\_Evingod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aergri_evingod/32/116437_2.png) [@Aergri\_Evingod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aergri_Evingod)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/694 "2017-12-21T19:03:27Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > Ah, shepherds in the darkness. It’s a remarkable thing to actually praise, isn’t it? I mean, I know you love the idea of keeping all the sheep nicely under control and ‘guiding’ them where you think they should go and so on. I know you perpetually keep them fearing the wolves out here in the dark. And so, you make sure all the little sheep spend their lives in fear of the wolf… before they get eaten by the shepherd. > > No no, I’m sure he’s _very_ trustworthy, when his actions and words are completely at odds. Actually give shepherds some praise please, there is more to it then to train them to fear the wolf, as unlike humans sheepardable animals - there are different in the cluster - still retain some instinct about their surrounding and their herd instinct is inborn comparable to the desire of freedom in humans even when our dear Caldari and Empirial citizens are going to object. Compared to us Mataris, sheeps and the like would be the best replacement for economic feasable believers in case they are combined with modern industrial robots as replacement for the industrial productional industry. See a solution to the curret topic. ---
**Author:** ![Arnulf\_Ogunkoya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arnulf_ogunkoya/32/380841_2.png) [@Arnulf\_Ogunkoya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arnulf_Ogunkoya)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/695 "2017-12-21T21:10:38Z")
One objection to this discussion seems to be that it is pointless because attitudes on both sides of the border are too entrenched. Personally I see no harm in theorising, as long as a person can be realistic about the chances of theory becoming practise. Regarding the Imperial imperative to Reclaim and change others. How much room is there in that to learn from the populations that are being reclaimed? The Empire has, demonstrably, changed over time. Has any of that been an incorporation of bits of what would presumably be seen as bits of divine wisdom in the possession of a conquered people? ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/696 "2017-12-21T21:22:32Z")
> [@Arnulf\_Ogunkoya](#): > > Regarding the Imperial imperative to Reclaim and change others. How much room is there in that to learn from the populations that are being reclaimed? As far as I understand, yes, there is theoretically room for the Empire to integrate teachings from its subjugated populace, but ultimately you will have to accept the Amarrian God as your one lord and saviour, and forgo all of your other culture as well. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/697 "2017-12-21T21:30:44Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > There are slaver raids within our borders and there’s countless people being broken and destroyed right.fuckin.now. Because people like you deserved it in full. And with this I am sending to Amarr Empire our great THANK YOU for making our cluster a better place to live. ---
**Author:** ![Arnulf\_Ogunkoya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arnulf_ogunkoya/32/380841_2.png) [@Arnulf\_Ogunkoya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arnulf_Ogunkoya)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/698 "2017-12-21T21:38:09Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > As far as I understand, yes, there is theoretically room for the Empire to integrate teachings from its subjugated populace, but ultimately you will have to accept the Amarrian God as your one lord and saviour, and forgo all of your other culture as well. Well, does it? That seems to be the current position but, as I said previously, the Empire has changed before. That said all my face to face talk with mainstream Imperials has been with the laity. I have meet and spoken to one Ni Kunni priest currently active in Republic space, but his take on things is a bit different and I suspect he’s not in the good graces of the Theology Council any more. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/699 "2017-12-21T21:43:32Z")
> [@Haru\_kai\_Vidaraltyr](#): > > It’s really not, though it seems that way. The Reclaiming is a huge barrier to peace across the cluster. For, if they subjugate us, the Federation is next. Then the State. Mr Vidaraltyr, I’m aware of the potential problem of the Amarrian Reclaiming for the rest of the cluster. Of course I have an active interest in the outcome of any peace negotiations between the Amarr and the Republic, any rational person would. My point is that it’s not on me to tell the Minmatar how they should feel about about the Reclaiming or what to think about it either. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/700 "2017-12-21T21:50:52Z")
Pssst. This is _Aldrith’s_ thread. Not Miz’s. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=34) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=36)