# (Actually) Interesting Ideas for Ending the Amarr-Minmatar Conflict **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263 "2017-11-28T22:27:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/721 "2017-12-22T21:13:01Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > I just want to create a world where I’ll never have to hear them again. > [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > I like how you still assume I’ll be the first one to try. Sorry, I keep forgetting your words and actions are barely ever connected and matching each other. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/722 "2017-12-22T21:17:42Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > The Republic will not ‘absorb’ the Empire, unless you count the reverse happening as a mutual process, which would be my goal. Well at least you’ve dropped the lies about wanting peace. You just want a conquest you don’t have to work for. > [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > What I am concerned with today is talking about how to bring relatively immediate, stable peace that both sides can agree to with their short-term goals being met and the possibility for their long-term goals to be either deferred or given a chance to be worked towards in a non-militaristic manner. Simple, yet complicated. Nevermind, you’re back to the lies. ‘Give me time to reload’ isn’t peace. > [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > The Imperial Rite is not a malignant blight, Yes, it is. By its very nature it demands unquestioning obedience. You all even demonize someone just for saying ‘so we know X can happen. Can we please make sure it _didn’t_?’ Because it was too mean to your all-powerful queen. At least _she_ had the stones to not even bother calling Max names and getting pissy about him. The rest of you were just so damned quick to take offense and call for blood, though. Over words. Over a man saying ‘hey, listen, God put this in our hands, and we can screw it up. Can we doublecheck?’ Trying to be loyal to your god in a way you don’t like is enough to get you zealots charging weapons. Hell, it’s enough to get you _shooting one another_. And we’re supposed to believe that kind of rabid blood lust in the name of a thing you can’t even demonstrate _exists_ is **not** a ‘malignant blight’? You aren’t just lying. You’re **mad** , too. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/723 "2017-12-22T21:25:15Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Well at least you’ve dropped the lies about wanting peace. You just want a conquest you don’t have to work for. Arrendis. I never lied about this. I told you that we have to, no matter what, carry on the Reclaiming. I just don’t want to doom myself and my children to serveral lifetimes of war and horror to do it. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Nevermind, you’re back to the lies. ‘Give me time to reload’ isn’t peace. Having a loaded weapon does not mean it needs to be used. You have one, we have one, let’s settle this with civility. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Yes, it is. Well, that’s not very civil. But again, thankfully your opinions, like Mad Mizzy’s, are not going to win out in the long-term. The longer we maintain peace, even an uneasy one, the more your words will ring hollow. As for what’s going on inside the Empire, as I said before, we will sort our own so we can better coexist with the cluster as it stands. Ongoing process, Arrendis. > [@Arrendis](#): > > You aren’t just lying. You’re mad, too. Crazy for not having to kill you. Yep, guilty as charged. ---
**Author:** ![Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pieter_tuulinen/32/155371_2.png) [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pieter_Tuulinen)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/724 "2017-12-22T21:33:35Z")
Arrendis, you know you don’t have to shoot each other to prevent the Empire invading you, right? The State/Empire alliance is a mutual defence pact. It doesn’t cover us getting caught up in offensive wars against the Republic and I can fairly safely say that’s never going to change. We don’t want to conquer you for us, so why would we want to conquer you for someone else? So that means the Empire knows that it can only attack the Republic whilst opening up it’s flank to an attack from the Federation - an attack that likely would NOT be covered by the mutual defence pact due to the original Empire aggression without casus belli. In other words, neither of you is terribly at risk of being attacked by a sane and rational actor - it’s only if one side or the other goes absolutely crazy that things will escalate to the point where large civilian populations would be at risk. This means that diplomatic negotiation is pretty much the only method of likely resolution to this issue. Back to square one. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/725 "2017-12-22T21:38:21Z")
> [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](#): > > a sane and rational actor Theocracy with a divine mandate for total domination. Pick one. ---
**Author:** ![Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pieter_tuulinen/32/155371_2.png) [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pieter_Tuulinen)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/726 "2017-12-22T21:39:31Z")
They’re a bit past charging into projectile fire with a cry of “Deus Vult!”, Miz. They’re not going to attack the Republic - because they know the cost of that. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/727 "2017-12-22T21:43:50Z")
Yes, our mixed-blood merchant Empress seems very keen on all-out conquest. I will keep you posted on our plans for trade fleets filled with sneaky Paladins and slavers. What’s that? They all filled with manufactured goods and wheat? Well, this invasion isn’t going well at all… ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/728 "2017-12-22T21:45:39Z")
Do they though? I think you’re vastly underestimating how much of a prime directive the reclaiming is to the Empire. Trust me when I say as someone who has both been brought up in the Empire, and someone who has studied and fought it pretty much my entire life - barring the bits I spent in a puddle of piss and/or vomit as a station rat - that it’s not something they’re willing to set aside. When they recognize that their Rite isn’t going to successfully “reclaim” cultures like the Tribes (hah! We learned what the Rite is the hard way.), the Federation (good luck trying to get _any_ cultural injection into it that could survive the onslaught and chaos of Federation culture), the State (might as well try to break down a blast door by sneezing at it) they will be forced to do it by force. It’s the _only_ way for them to perform their mission in the end, and they _will_ try. > [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > Yes, our mixed-blood merchant Empress seems very keen on all-out conquest. I will keep you posted on our plans for trade fleets filled with sneaky Paladins and slavers. > > What’s that? They all filled with manufactured goods and wheat? > > Well, this invasion isn’t going well at all… I think you mean TCMCs and Vitoxin. Your slaver Empress might have more financial and powermongering motives than religious ones, but she’s one of the nastier slavers of New Eden and you know it. You’re spinning harder than the outer regions are, Aldieboo. ---
**Author:** ![Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pieter_tuulinen/32/155371_2.png) [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pieter_Tuulinen)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/729 "2017-12-22T21:48:07Z")
I honestly don’t think they’d have more chance of doing it by force - they couldn’t take you guys and the Federation couldn’t take us. The Empire is not going to manage to conquer any of the other three of the big four. They couldn’t conquer the Khanid Kingdom. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/730 "2017-12-22T21:49:24Z")
Successfully? Of course not, but they could still do enough damage to severely threaten the societies they go for. That is why the Empire is and sadly will remain an existential threat to all other nations. The only question is when that threat fully materialize and whether or not the rest of us will finally wise up and cut it off at the pass. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/731 "2017-12-22T21:50:05Z")
> [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](#): > > They couldn’t conquer the Khanid Kingdom. This one stings a little. ---
**Author:** ![Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pieter_tuulinen/32/155371_2.png) [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pieter_Tuulinen)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/732 "2017-12-22T21:55:04Z")
Sorry, Aldrith. I know it’s mostly because of how many Navy ships they stole. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/733 "2017-12-22T21:56:19Z")
It’s okay. We’re not mad. All may be forgiven. Soon. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/734 "2017-12-22T21:59:03Z")
Hmph. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 10:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/735 "2017-12-22T22:17:44Z")
Pieter; And still the Empire continues its aggression unchecked. The Empire attacks the Matari people _every day_, and what do the politicians do? Do the Republic and Federation even begin to talk about some kind of diplomatic pressure, whether through CONCORD or not? Oh, sure, the official position of both is ‘slavery’s very bad and we don’t like it’, but when’s the last time either actually _pushed_ on that brick wall? Here, let’s try this: What odds would you give me that either the Federation or the Republic will even go so far as to issue a press release amounting to ‘As we begin the final year of the second decade of CONCORD’s second century, we reaffirm our opposition to slavery everywhere in New Eden. We call upon the Amarr Empire to end this barbaric practice and join the rest of the Cluster as a free and civilized state.’ I mean, it’s not like I’m expecting the _State_ to say that. Just the two powers that officially _claim_ to oppose Amarr enslavement of other cultures. Just words, that cost them _nothing_. Words that don’t even present a new posture. What do you think? Any chance _at all_ of a public statement like that? If they won’t do _that little_, what chance do you think there is that they’re _actually_ providing any diplomatic or economic pressure for change? You talk about a _cassus belli_… but _trillions_ of Matari enslaved and subject to constant attempts to break them, to steal their identity and culture… how is that _not_ one? You went to war over _dirt_. Dirt that will still be there billions of years after the State and the Federation and everyone who remembers them are dust. Actual flesh and blood people who feel pain, who suffer in misery and are subjected to daily abuses… they’re worth _less than dirt_? How frickin’ _rational_ is that? > [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](#): > > They’re a bit past charging into projectile fire with a cry of “Deus Vult!”, Miz. They’re not going to attack the Republic - because they know the cost of that. Only because they can’t get away with it. That doesn’t make them _sane_, just _cunning_. ((Edit cuz Sami pointed out I had an OOC brain fart.)) ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 10:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/736 "2017-12-22T22:33:30Z")
So, anyway, I’m sure we can solve this with beer. ---
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/515671_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/737 "2017-12-23T01:15:41Z")
I hope you have a multi-trillion pint pitcher of the stuff. One pint for every one of the Matari held in bondage. By the way, you repeatedly attack us Matari for being “angry” and “holding grudges” but I’m betting you know your parents and their parents and so on back for generations back into the mists of time. Well, guess what? I don’t. (Best guess was that I was born in Aridia, likely somewhere in the Chibi system and was liberated by the couple who adopted and raised me as their own.) I’m betting that you know all about your Ni-Kunni heritage and culture (at least what the slavers allowed you to keep). I’m betting that you know whether you have siblings, whether your biological parents are alive, dead or enslaved. I don’t. None of the worlds in Amarr space have been ravaged by orbital bombardment as punishment for one man’s murder. I could go on but I hope you get the point. We have a thousand plus years of enmity between our peoples. You’re godsdamned right that many of us are angry about what you’ve done to us and we have every right to be. I guess I appreciate the effort you’re trying to make but, no amount of high-minded talk or moot discussions over beer can change history or give us back what was stolen by your masters. I think I’ll continue to work to build up the Republic’s industrial and military infrastructure as a credible deterrent to Amarrian aggression. I’ll hope for something more than the current status quo but won’t hold my breath. ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/738 "2017-12-23T17:16:48Z")
I have some fine aged cheese if you’d like? > [@Anabella\_Rella](#): > > but I’m betting you know your parents and their parents and so on back for generations back into the mists of time. Well, guess what? I don’t. An effect of being insignificant in the social order. Perhaps there are records, perhaps there are not. If they weren’t worth recording maybe they aren’t worth you knowing. > [@Anabella\_Rella](#): > > the couple who adopted and raised me as their own Instead, honor these people, they deserving of your time and attention. > [@Anabella\_Rella](#): > > I’m betting that you know all about your Ni-Kunni heritage and culture What exactly is preventing you from learning about whatever culture you choose now? Stop complaining and just do it. > [@Anabella\_Rella](#): > > I’m betting that you know whether you have siblings, whether your biological parents are alive, dead or enslaved. I don’t. A continuation of my first two responses which basically amounts to - so what? You don’t know them, have never known them, and likely never will even if they exist. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/739 "2017-12-23T18:38:00Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > I have some fine aged cheese if you’d like? I know he’s cheesy, but Aldrith’s not _that_ old. > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > A continuation of my first two responses which basically amounts to - so what? Gosh, how could _anyone_ find such an understanding, compassionate, _loving_ Holder wanting as a caretaker figure? I wonder how you’d react to someone offering to take your kids, wipe their memories of you, and raise them to never know you. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/740 "2017-12-23T22:08:02Z")
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