# (Actually) Interesting Ideas for Ending the Amarr-Minmatar Conflict **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263 "2017-11-28T22:27:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/741 "2017-12-24T01:19:48Z")
I think you’ve had too much of that beer, Aldrith. ---
**Author:** ![Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pieter_tuulinen/32/155371_2.png) [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pieter_Tuulinen)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 9:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/742 "2017-12-24T09:57:13Z")
You think YOU made extras. You should have seen 100 tiny Tuulinens. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/743 "2017-12-24T11:25:56Z")
If you were into the empires backstory and some of the other lore you’d see there’s no room for peace the minmatar kill their own kind for accepting Amarr ruling.On the other hand the Amarr have been beaten over the head with the Scriptures for so long that they dare not think outside their little box,eeeer book.The only way to bring peace would be for a combined capsuleer assault and destruction of their fleets.We could take the slaves back to the minmatar and let Concord and SoE bring them back into non-aggression state. Come to think of it a capsuleer war on the empires would solve a lot of issues in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Slayer\_Liberator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/slayer_liberator/32/398086_2.png) [@Slayer\_Liberator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Slayer_Liberator)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 11:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/744 "2017-12-24T23:36:30Z")
The problem is that even if CONCORD could somehow be convinced to allow for that to happen, the Navies of the four empires are too large to be defeated by cappsuleers that are fighting each other and it would be insanely difficult to get all of the cappsuleers to work together on that large of a scale for such an extended period of time. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/745 "2017-12-25T00:16:06Z")
> [@Slayer\_Liberator](#): > > it would be insanely difficult to get all of the cappsuleers to work together on that large of a scale for such an extended period of time. Well, there’s also this effect. I offer anyone who takes a particular side in this conflict, a shiny fleebus. And capsuleers would sign up, despite not knowing what a fleebus even is. Just so that they could have a fleebus and others would not. ---
**Author:** ![Slayer\_Liberator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/slayer_liberator/32/398086_2.png) [@Slayer\_Liberator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Slayer_Liberator)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 3:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/746 "2017-12-25T03:03:19Z")
Well in order to keep cappsuleers cooperating for years if not longer then that fleebus would need to be _really_ shiny, like Drifter Battleship shiny. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 6:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/747 "2017-12-25T06:49:57Z")
You’re both operating under the assumption that a significant portion of capsuleers would NOT end up fighting each other to have sole possession of this semi-mythical fleebus. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/748 "2017-12-25T19:49:51Z")
> [@Valerie\_Valate](#): > > And capsuleers would sign up, despite not knowing what a fleebus even is. We don’t? > [@Slayer\_Liberator](#): > > that fleebus would need to be really shiny It is. > [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > this semi-mythical fleebus. It’s not. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/7/f/7fe59558d925f952faf5607564e23728f96c00d9.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Alizabeth\_Vea](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alizabeth_vea/32/122884_2.png) [@Alizabeth\_Vea](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alizabeth_Vea)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/749 "2017-12-25T19:55:09Z")
I \<3 Lyris. When she’s not drunk. Okay, when she’s drunk, but not toooooo drunk. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/750 "2017-12-25T21:12:18Z")
I said semi-mythical for a reason. Any fleebus that can cause capsuleers to coordinate or fight just to own would have some special properties indeed. Aside from shiny, that is. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Slayer\_Liberator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/slayer_liberator/32/398086_2.png) [@Slayer\_Liberator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Slayer_Liberator)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/751 "2017-12-25T21:22:25Z")
That’s why I mentioned a Drifter Battleship. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/752 "2017-12-25T21:44:55Z")
Yeah, and I was addressing the cooperation aspect. Either-or, I guess? ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/753 "2017-12-25T22:20:38Z")
Who’s Gold Magnate is that? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/754 "2017-12-25T22:40:26Z")
It’s the Shiny Fleebus. I don’t think I should say any more about the contents of my hangar. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/755 "2017-12-25T22:43:34Z")
Can confirm, I want it. I’d reprocess it. Slowly. While recording the process. _Livestreaming it_ in fact. With a live chat to properly savor the cries. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 10:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/756 "2017-12-25T22:44:16Z")
Eh, the Empire can make more. ---
**Author:** ![Alizabeth\_Vea](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alizabeth_vea/32/122884_2.png) [@Alizabeth\_Vea](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alizabeth_Vea)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/757 "2017-12-25T22:47:36Z")
My Lady, (And Lord Consort Newelle), I need to borrow ten billion slaves. Preferably without asking questions as to where they are going, or if you are going to get them back. It’s important. For a thing. Regards, Your Sister in Fire and Blood, Alizabeth ---
**Author:** ![Slayer\_Liberator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/slayer_liberator/32/398086_2.png) [@Slayer\_Liberator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Slayer_Liberator)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/758 "2017-12-25T23:12:49Z")
> [@Alizabeth\_Vea](#): > > I need to borrow ten billion slaves. Preferably without asking questions as to where they are going, or if you are going to get them back. It’s important. For a thing. That’s a lot of slaves and isn’t the point of borrowing to give someone a thing (or in this case people) and give them back later? ---
**Author:** ![Slayer\_Liberator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/slayer_liberator/32/398086_2.png) [@Slayer\_Liberator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Slayer_Liberator)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/759 "2017-12-25T23:16:12Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > Can confirm, I want it. > > I’d reprocess it. Slowly. While recording the process. Livestreaming it in fact. With a live chat to properly savor the cries. Why not fit it in the worst way possible and self-destructing it slowly? ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/760 "2017-12-26T16:08:12Z")
So, I guess now I’ll present my own “solutions” to this. Firstly, the Empire will never apologize for acting in accordance with the faith and the Reclaiming. By the Destiny of Faith, the Empire was justified in conquering the Minmatar people, as our loyalties are held to God above all, not those we conquer. By God’s will, we did not commit a crime here. Other nations might say that the way we acted was a crime against humanity, or natural rights, or the Minmatar, but that represents a _fundamental_ difference of opinion that cannot be reconciled. This is not a matter that can be debated, only accepted or refused. What we would not be justified in, are not justified in, is attacking the Republic _today_. We have sworn oaths to peace treaties under the sight of God. As long as those treaties stand, any Amarr that calls for, or engages in, an invasion of the Republic is acting in defiance of God (excepting in the limited capacity permitted by the CEWPA acts). If those Amarr are members of Imperial institutions, then those institutions must be held accountable for acting in defiance of God’s will. Slavery is an institution supported by Scripture, as a punishment and means of penance for those guilty by blood of the First Apostasy and ownership of slaves as a right given unto Holders. It will never be eliminated according to the Republic’s demands. But it _can_ be argued that its purpose is no longer valid or appropriate for modern society, even that it is something that is contrary to God’s will, and ended _on that merit_. While that elimination might soften relations between the Empire and the Republic, and the Republic may apply pressure to the Empire to encourage its ending, at no point will it be ended for the Republic. We do not owe the Republic an end to slavery. Above all, crimes must be punished. There is no justification for breaking the law. A nation’s crimes against actual laws they agreed to cannot be ignored, regardless of claims to morality or “they started it first!”. Obedience to the law cannot, and must not, be subject to the whims and emotions of the perpetrator, otherwise law cannot be trusted to keep the peace. Every recorded violation of standing interstellar law must be judged and punished on its own right. Ergo, 1. There will be no reparations given by the Empire for the Day of Darkness. The Empire acted according to God’s will, and no standing treaties between the Republic and Empire existed. Therefore, no crime was committed, because war done in pursuit of national priorities and in full accordance with the law is no crime. The Republic may consider the Empire’s decision to formally secede sovereign authority over the Molden Heath, Heimatar, and Metropolis regions to the Republic as reparations, but the Empire will never present that as such. 2. Slavery may be ended, but it will be ended according to considerations of its validity under our beliefs, not for the Republic. The Republic, as an anti-slavery state, may certainly apply pressure on the Empire, as it has done and will of course continue to do so. This may affect (positively _or_ negatively) the Empire’s decision, and relations between both sides would benefit from its ending, but in the end, slavery is an internal matter for the Empire. We will never end slavery “to end the conflict”. We will end slavery if we have come to believe it should be ended. 3. All slaves taken illegally by the Empire since the foundation of CONCORD must be returned to their places of origin, and reparations must be paid to the offended parties. CONCORD policies, agreed to by the Empire under the eye of God, dictate exactly where enslavement is valid and _any_ violations of this are an affront to the offended parties, to CONCORD, and to God. 4. All individuals and institutions guilty of committing 3 must be punished in accordance with their crimes, in a manner that satisfies the offended party. 5. All slaves or prisoners taken from the Empire by the Republic since the foundation of CONCORD must be returned to their places of origin, and reparations must be paid to the offended parties. CONCORD laws were agreed to by the Republic, and any violations of this are an affront to the offended parties and to CONCORD. 6. All individuals and institutions guilty of committing 5 must be punished in accordance with their crimes, in a manner that satisfies the offended party. 7. The perpetrators of the Elder War must be held accountable for their invasion of CONCORD, the Ammatar Mandate, and the Amarr Empire. The Republic must be held accountable for its sheltering of these elements in violation of CONCORD demands. 8. Any other documented violations of interstellar law committed by one nation against the other since the foundation of CONCORD must be punished as well. 9. If the Republic really believes it must pursue war to see its ends met, then it should do so according to interstellar law. Petition CONCORD for the right to engage in war with another member state, presenting all necessary evidence supporting the claimed causus belli. Should that petition be denied, and the Republic still wants to engage in war with the Empire, then begin the process of withdrawing from CONCORD. Of course, a non-CONCORD state declaring war on a CONCORD state would stack the odds considerably against the Republic, but preventing this kind of behavior is kind of the point of these alliances. Besides, the Republic leaving CONCORD would probably cause a cascade failure anyway, with everyone leaving or renegotiating terms in order to support the existing Empire-State / Federation-Republic blocs. This would at least be a more appropriate way of shutting down CONCORD than blowing up its headquarters. _“But none of that is a real solution!”_ Yes, that’s correct. None of that is a real solution because there _is_ no real solution. Looking for a nice outcome is a fantasy. Actual crimes, where local or interstellar law is provably violated, should be punished, because otherwise law means nothing. But conflicting national interests cannot be compromised away for the sake of peace. Peace is achieved when the conflicts between groups are either not severe enough to give cause for war, when outside enforcement prevents it, or when one side’s aims trump another’s. I, for one, believe the Empire needs to change. I believe we are not acting according to God’s will in certain ways. And I believe that, were we to change in those ways, it would settle many (but not all) of the Republic’s most serious grievances. But those changes can’t be made _for_ the Republic, or for the purpose of peace. The changes should be made because they are the right changes to make, not as an offering on the altar of diplomacy. The _right_ path must be pursued, in all things. Not the path that compromises principles for peace or convenience. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=37) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=39)