# (Actually) Interesting Ideas for Ending the Amarr-Minmatar Conflict **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263 "2017-11-28T22:27:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 5:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/821 "2017-12-31T05:12:06Z")
Oh, I know exactly what you mean. I just disagree with: > [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > Their emperor probably did actually want peace. Because what he wanted isn’t _peace_. ---
**Author:** ![Vollhov\_Jr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vollhov_jr/32/510418_2.png) [@Vollhov\_Jr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vollhov_Jr)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 6:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/822 "2017-12-31T06:43:48Z")
> **Interesting Ideas for Ending the Amarr-Minmatar Conflict:** Idea: To recognize his own insignificance, as Minmatar won this war. While you Loyalists involved in the festival called Succession. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/b/5b4856ec161bc6d167f61a71c73461fd10eca537.jpg) Total Victory of Tribal Liberation Force Marked by Award of Stripes of Fury Medal. MATAR, PATOR IV – Sanmatar Maleatu Shakor has awarded some thousand Tribal Liberation Force fighters a special medal for their participation in the offensive that has brought total victory to the Minmatar militia forces in the Amarr-Minmatar border warzone. New Empress is not able to defend the Empire ! [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/c/c/dccd0434135dfbd81a7f479be92e5863a4b860e7.jpeg "Epic Score - Liberators (Epic Powerful Hybrid Action)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjUpKDgM80k) While your new Empress buys herself beautiful titles and beautiful skins of ships, you always watch the insignificance in the face of Amarr. Great Empire died in August 21/08/117. ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/823 "2017-12-31T19:01:40Z")
By that logic, every single militia has “won” their war, and the TLF were _last_. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/824 "2017-12-31T19:38:13Z")
Everyone got their participation trophies? No one was left out? Wonderful! Everyone on the bus, we’re going back to the academy for cookies and juice. Oh, what’s that? Oh no, Timmy. No. This wasn’t serious, whatever made you think that? Come now, cookies and juice and maybe a pat on the head. ---
**Author:** ![Vollhov\_Jr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vollhov_jr/32/510418_2.png) [@Vollhov\_Jr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vollhov_Jr)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/825 "2017-12-31T19:41:15Z")
I would tell you about the logic. But alas, it will not be Intergalactic Summit ---
**Author:** ![Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pieter_tuulinen/32/155371_2.png) [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pieter_Tuulinen)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/826 "2018-01-09T17:34:29Z")
The pendulum wars may be a game, Miz, but the trophies are given out for winning it - not participation. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/827 "2018-01-09T18:17:33Z")
Nonsense. You don’t have to win a single system to get LP and goodies. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/828 "2018-01-09T18:33:01Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > You don’t have to win a single system to get LP and goodies. Having participated in the “game”, I can vouch that what Ms. Arrendis says is true. Perhaps if flipping a system was required to get the LP then maybe this war would be taken a little more seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/829 "2018-01-09T20:05:05Z")
Occupancy still affects the lives of local baseliners. Keeping systems in the hands of their original owners is at least a small charity to them. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/830 "2018-01-09T20:57:39Z")
Until a week/month later when it changes hands again. Lets be realistic, anyone owning property in the effected regions either wrote those holdings off as a loss or are simply renting the space practically. I can’t imagine how anyone would willingly hold on to permanemt property in those systems with things the way they are, unless they are truly neutral in the eyes of the respective parties. ---
**Author:** ![Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pieter_tuulinen/32/155371_2.png) [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pieter_Tuulinen)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 10:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/831 "2018-01-09T22:34:27Z")
Correct. But your faction has to win every single system to get a medal - and that isn’t something that happens by accident. Sure, there are some people who got a medal and didn’t do much to earn it, but it’s a collective effort and a collective reward. Those who have one know whether they put the work in or not. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 10:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/832 "2018-01-09T22:52:48Z")
When you can earn it simply by clicking a button in the station interfaces, orbit a button once and then go station trading or whatever until the war zone shifts, it’s just a participation trophy. It requires quite literally no effort from you. ---
**Author:** ![Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pieter_tuulinen/32/155371_2.png) [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pieter_Tuulinen)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/833 "2018-01-09T23:06:33Z")
That is not what I did to earn mine. Mine required considerable leveraged acquisition of salvage assets. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 2:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/834 "2018-02-04T02:46:35Z")
Found this while doing a bit of research on social reforms. Perhaps it will mean nothing, or perhaps it might help those involved resolve this issue quickly. The source is old, the original author’s name has been lost to antiquity, and the translation has errors so some meaning might be lost. At any rate I offer these ancient words to ponder. "One of the commonest objections \ men are not good enough to live under \ state of things. They would not submit to a compulsory \, but they are not yet ripe for free, anarchistic \. Centuries of individualistic education have rendered them too egoistic. \, submission to the strong, and work under the whip of necessity, have rendered them unfit for a society where everybody would be free and know no compulsion except what results from a freely taken engagement towards the others, and their disapproval if he would not fulfill the engagement. Therefore, we are told, some intermediate transition state of society is necessary as a step towards \. Old words in a new shape; words said and repeated since the first attempt at any reform, political or social, in any human society. Words which we heard before the abolition \; words said twenty and forty centuries ago by those who like too much their own quietness for liking rapid changes, whom boldness of thought frightens, and who themselves have not suffered enough from \ of the present society to feel the deep necessity of new issues!" ((Sources: Kropotkin, P., (1888), [Are We Good Enough?](https://sovversiva.wordpress.com/2011/07/18/are-we-good-enough/))) ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/835 "2018-02-04T20:42:53Z")
Sounds like the type of Gallente political philospher that would have refused to fathom another way of thinking, for all of his idyllic notions of a naturally free and good human. Humanity is not naturally free nor good. It can become so, yes, but only through discipline of the self and focus on a higher purpose than that self. Ideally that focus should be on the highest purpose: the divine. Use what words you wish to describe it; God, the spiritual, the greater whole, the cosmic unity of all things, but the concept is the same in the end and we will come to agreement eventually. As for reform of any sort, it should be undertaken in focused, controlled increments and not in reckless bounds, especially for large societies. All good things come with time. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/836 "2018-02-04T20:51:50Z")
@Aldrith_Shutaq, If people aren’t naturally free then how do you explain all the people from the cluster aside from the true Amarr stepping away from your god and no divine force preventing it? Would it not be a matter of your god allowing freedom of choice for the majority of the cluster to walk away freely and only relatively speaking a hand full of people obeying it by this choice that was not imposed on them by any tangible force? ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/837 "2018-02-04T21:04:57Z")
Humans are, flatly never free. To exist is to be bound to something. To exist as a human is to be bound to many things; your body, your surroundings, your family, your society, your universe, your understanding of it through your senses, mind and soul. Freedom is a lie. It will always be a lie, or a hyperbolic term to describe a much more subtle concept; the ability to make mistakes with little to no consequence. To fail at being the best human you can possibly be, but not suffer for it. It’s an indulgence, and nothing more. The truth is that there are many ways to do something, but only one _best_ way. The problem is knowing that way and having the fortitude to always do it, without fail. You don’t need to come to the conclusion the Imperial Rite is the best way to view the world, but you should, and will, if you live long enough. The Imperial Rite itself can and will change to accomodate the best way to live as revelations are made. That is the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/838 "2018-02-04T21:21:29Z")
Well… Your starting to scare me, ya know that? Stop making sense! 😲 ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 10:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/839 "2018-02-04T22:35:53Z")
He’s not making sense. It’s just more trite shite to try and justify, poorly, the subjugation of another human being to anothers mercy, or lack of thereof. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2018, 12:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/840 "2018-02-05T00:20:30Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > Freedom is a lie. It will always be a lie, or a hyperbolic term to describe a much more subtle concept; the ability to make mistakes with little to no consequence. Nonsense. ‘Freedom’, in the common-use sociological sense, is simply _agency_. It is the ability to enact meaningful change in your own life. That doesn’t mean ‘with little to no consequences’. If anything, _the consequences are the point_. You may not get the consequences you _want_, or the ones you’d _like_, but if everything you can do has no consequences, _nothing you do matters_. That’s _not_ ‘freedom’, Aldrith. That’s exactly the opposite of freedom. There are many ways to do something, but which one is “best” is often dependent on _why_ you do the thing, and what it is you seek to gain from it. For example: There are many ways to shoot an enemy soldier on the battlefield. One choice is: shoot to kill, or shoot to incapacitate? If my goal is to kill my enemy, it’s pretty obvious which is best. If my goal is to remove as many people as possible from combat, shoot to incapacitate. Even if not _immediately_ successful, someone’s going to need to help him get to safety. That potentially removes 2-3 enemies from the immediate fighting. If my intention is to be merciful, do I shoot to incapacitate, because at least he’s alive, or shoot to kill, so he doesn’t suffer? ‘Best’ is conditional, and entirely dependent on your aims. If my intention is to find a way to view existence that both a)is in-line with the well-understood laws that appear to govern physical reality, and b)makes the minimum unfounded and unsupported assumptions possible, the Imperial Rite and its completely non-verifiable and unnecessary claims of magical sky-fairy-pestering isn’t the absolute worst way to do it… but it sure ain’t the best. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=41) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=43)