# (Actually) Interesting Ideas for Ending the Amarr-Minmatar Conflict **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263 "2017-11-28T22:27:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/904 "2018-02-15T17:48:36Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > > [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > > > I sense sarcasm. > > Dr. Valate’s feelings about the Empire seem to be “complicated,” Ms. Ambrye. I’m a complicated person. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/905 "2018-02-15T18:02:22Z")
You’d think so, but as it turns out, it’s pretty easy to peg the decent people in a society built on systemic abuses and cruelty through slavery: they’re the ones actively speaking out and trying to change it, even if it means endangering themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Nivikka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nivikka/32/43532_2.png) [@Nivikka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nivikka)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/906 "2018-02-15T18:12:30Z")
If speaking against the norm in a society endangers you, is it not easier to leave and seek your fortune elsewhere, though? Men choose the path of least resistance, so that would probably be the outcome in the vast majority of cases. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/907 "2018-02-15T18:16:00Z")
That doesn’t make them ‘decent’. Just alive. ---
**Author:** ![Nivikka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nivikka/32/43532_2.png) [@Nivikka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nivikka)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/908 "2018-02-15T18:17:46Z")
Still, it grants a modicum of freedom to bestow random acts of kindness to strangers that you might have otherwise lacked. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/909 "2018-02-15T18:20:07Z")
> [@Nivikka](#): > > Men choose the path of least resistance, so that would probably be the outcome in the vast majority of cases. Why do you think that some of these people even have access to that option? “They could just leave.” Do you think the average non capsuleer can afford to leave the influence of their system let alone their empire? Sure, it’s easy for us capsuleers. We’re protected from empirical aggression and many of us have far more wealth than the majority of baseliners combined. We have access to ships and resources in the way the average non capsuleer will ever have. So, how can they leave? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/910 "2018-02-15T18:22:28Z")
Which just shows that it’s possible to be kind without being decent. And the person who doesn’t leave, but doesn’t speak up, who doesn’t take a stand against the systemic cruelty, but they’re really _nice_ to their friends, family, and employees… They’re just ‘kind’, particularly cruel way. ---
**Author:** ![Nivikka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nivikka/32/43532_2.png) [@Nivikka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nivikka)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/911 "2018-02-15T18:33:26Z")
You board the nearest transport and you go. Sometimes you have no other choice. ---
**Author:** ![Nivikka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nivikka/32/43532_2.png) [@Nivikka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nivikka)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/912 "2018-02-15T18:34:02Z")
Well, I’ll just take the kindness I got and be content with it, then. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/913 "2018-02-15T18:46:14Z")
> [@Nivikka](#): > > You board the nearest transport and you go. Sometimes you have no other choice. If challenging the status quo puts you in direct danger from the government, implying a oppressive regime, what makes you think you’ll be allowed access to the nearest transport? ---
**Author:** ![Nivikka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nivikka/32/43532_2.png) [@Nivikka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nivikka)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/914 "2018-02-15T18:49:55Z")
That’s not something for an open discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/915 "2018-02-15T18:55:30Z")
> [@Nivikka](#): > > That’s not something for an open discussion. Why not? I merely asked should, say the average baseliner, find herself in direct conflict with the local government that wants to now imprison, or worse kill, her. How does she just board the nearest transport if they’re trying to retain her? I don’t see why this would not be something we’d discuss in an open forum. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/916 "2018-02-15T19:10:41Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > > [@Valerie\_Valate](#): > > > > The Amarr Empire is actually the greatest force for galactic peace. > > I sense sarcasm. So. To expand on what I said earlier. The Amarr Empire is the greatest force for galactic peace. “Surely you jest, Dr. Valate?” you ask. Not at all. You see, the Amarr Empire’s presence complicated the Gallente-Caldari war, the Gallente abruptly became aware of the existence of another highly technological civilisation other than themselves and the Caldari. They quickly realised that continuing their assault on the Caldari could risk opening up a two-front war, should the Caldari and Empire form an alliance. They realised that such a war would not be winnable, and would certainly not be winnable without the Federation changing into something that it once held to be anathema - a militaristic society requiring all citizens to serve. So, the Empire caused the Gallente to step back, and the war fizzled out. As for the State, the Amarr Empire represents a guarantee of the continued existence of the Caldari State. As long as the Empire endures, the State shall too, because the Gallente will not dare make another move to attack the State, lest the Empire be drawn in as well. At the same time though, the Empire curbs any aggression from State fanatics, because their own paranoia makes them worry that the Empire might Reclaim the State should the State be otherwise occupied in war. For the Federation too, the Amarr Empire promotes peace. Because of the potential for war with the State & Empire, then the various ethno-separatist movements who would wish to secede from the Federation, are far more easily countered by the Federal centrist movements, as separation would inevitably weaken the Federation as a whole, against this omnipresent threat. Minmatar separatist immigrant groups, who would wish for their worlds to secede from the Federation and join the Republic, do not campaign too hard, because they too fear the weakening of the collective defence against the perceived Imperial & State threat. The Empire, being confusing and baffling to Federal social scientists, curbs the tendencies of the Federation Ultra-Nationalists, as even the most fervent U-Nat realises the Federation cannot win a two-front war. So we can see the Empire curbs the aggression of the State and Federation, while simultaneously guaranteeing their existence. The Minmatar Republic is slightly different, however, due to the sheer size of the Empire, the Republic realises that they cannot ever realistically defeat the Empire, certainly not without becoming reviled by the rest of the galactic community. Thus, their aggression is also contained. The Republic certainly would not support secessionist movements in the Federation, because of the fear of the Reclaiming. So, we see that the Amarr Empire, whose very existence baffles Federal social scientists, who cannot understand how a religious civilisation has endured for fifteen thousand years when their social models show that religious societies are unstable, is indeed the greatest force for galactic peace. The Reclaiming causes peace in the galaxy, by acting as a huge deterrence to aggression. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/917 "2018-02-15T19:49:58Z")
You know, if you weren’t quite so stupid, you’d be an idiot. The Empire curbs aggression from the State, you say? Really? So the Empire didn’t exist when the State invaded the Fed’s _capital_ system and retook Caldari Prime? What, did they just _pop out of existence_ for a little while? And ‘Minmatar separatist immigrant groups’? Really? Immigrants. People who _moved into the Federation_. So you imagine there’s this massive group of people who moved _into_ the Federation so they could agitate in favor of _leaving_ the Federation? Why wouldn’t they have just, I don’t know, _moved someplace other than the Federation_ when they were busy immigrating? And I highly doubt that Federal sociologists are at all baffled as to why a cultural framework built around obedience, reinforced by millennia of conquest, and fortified with militarization, active internal policing and authoritarian indoctrination basically from birth, endures. The Empire isn’t a force for peace. It’s a rabid slaver hound that’s just smart enough to bide its time in the cage. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/918 "2018-02-15T19:50:32Z")
> [@Valerie\_Valate](#): > > The Minmatar Republic is slightly different, however, due to the sheer size of the Empire, the Republic realises that they cannot ever realistically defeat the Empire, certainly not without becoming reviled by the rest of the galactic community. Thus, their aggression is also contained. Isn’t the Republic a **direct result** of Amaar aggression? I think you’re mistaken to say that the Amaar contain the aggression against the Empire by the Republic without recognizing the _cause_ of the Republic’s aggression. Anything else is disingenuous. > The Reclaiming causes peace in the galaxy, by acting as a huge deterrence to aggression. I refer to the example of the Republic which you seem to be confused about. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/919 "2018-02-15T19:51:04Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > The Empire isn’t a force for peace. It’s a rabid slaver hound that’s just smart enough to bide its time in the cage. Then why hasn’t the Republic attacked ? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/920 "2018-02-15T19:52:37Z")
> [@Valerie\_Valate](#): > > Then why hasn’t the Republic attacked …_yet_. Not being stupid enough to try to slap a rabid hound doesn’t make the rabid hound a force for peace. It makes the rabid hound something you buy bigger guns and get ready to kill. ---
**Author:** ![Nivikka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nivikka/32/43532_2.png) [@Nivikka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nivikka)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/921 "2018-02-15T20:16:31Z")
You’re presupposing a certain degree of social blindness in the individual. There’s a long stretch of time during which one can realise that their outlook on life doesn’t match what’s socially acceptable and scram. Then there are circumstances in which society just realises it doesn’t like you and you’re toast. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/922 "2018-02-15T20:23:02Z")
You forget the situation where an average citizen in a society starts out where they do not have any access to off planet transportation, either for financial or political reasons. To presume that it’s either a slow wind up to where you find yourself at odds with the society, or it happens all of a sudden is false binary. ---
**Author:** ![Nivikka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nivikka/32/43532_2.png) [@Nivikka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nivikka)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/923 "2018-02-15T20:25:12Z")
You don’t simply wake up one day and decide “I’m upset with society and I’m going to go all out on decrying it to the point where it becomes disruptive to my life” either. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=45) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=47)