# (Actually) Interesting Ideas for Ending the Amarr-Minmatar Conflict **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263 "2017-11-28T22:27:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/924 "2018-02-15T20:28:00Z")
> [@Nivikka](#): > > You don’t simply wake up one day and decide “I’m upset with society and I’m going to go all out on decrying it to the point where it becomes disruptive to my life” either. Nor did I claim that. How does this make it any more possible for someone who has no means to get off planet to do so when their lives are in danger? ---
**Author:** ![Nivikka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nivikka/32/43532_2.png) [@Nivikka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nivikka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 1:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/925 "2018-02-16T01:38:16Z")
Leaving smugglers aside, that’s not the original scope of the question, so ✌ ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/926 "2018-02-16T01:55:29Z")
> [@Nivikka](#): > > Leaving smugglers aside, that’s not the original scope of the question It’s not? I recall originally asking the following. > [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > Why do you think that some of these people even have access to that option? “They could just leave.” Do you think the average non capsuleer can afford to leave the influence of their system let alone their empire? > \ > So, how can they leave? My last question was: > [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > How does this make it any more possible for someone who has no means to get off planet to do so when their lives are in danger? How is my last post not in scope with my original question? ---
**Author:** ![Nivikka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nivikka/32/43532_2.png) [@Nivikka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nivikka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 2:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/927 "2018-02-16T02:10:23Z")
Going from the average mon-capsuleer to someone who’s being actively hunted down by authority does change the scope of the question. It’s disingenious at best. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 2:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/928 "2018-02-16T02:24:12Z")
I was responding to this from _you_. > [@Nivikka](#): > > **If speaking against the norm in a society endangers you** , is it not easier to leave and seek your fortune elsewhere, though? Men choose the path of least resistance, so that would probably be the outcome in the vast majority of cases. (emphasis mine) How is someone who’s life is threatened, as framed by your original post, and my pointing out that the average non-capsuleer in such a situation may lack the luxury to leave the planet, disingenuous? The section I had snipped out from my original post explains my position clearly. If you’re not convinced you can expand the quote and see for yourself. I reject your charge of me being disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![Nivikka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nivikka/32/43532_2.png) [@Nivikka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nivikka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 3:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/929 "2018-02-16T03:33:11Z")
What I’m saying is if doing A puts you in danger, why not do B? What you’re asking is how someone can do B if they’ve already done A? ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 3:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/930 "2018-02-16T03:59:24Z")
> [@Nivikka](#): > > What I’m saying is if doing A puts you in danger, why not do B? > > What you’re asking is how someone can do B if they’ve already done A? Yes. And? It’s a valid question and by no means disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![Aradina\_Varren](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aradina_varren/32/398702_2.png) [@Aradina\_Varren](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aradina_Varren)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 12:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/931 "2018-02-16T12:59:16Z")
Racing toward 1,000 replies. Keep it up! ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/932 "2018-02-16T16:21:15Z")
Now that’s just a silly goal. We’d need filler posts and nonsense and thoroughly unhelpful commentary! And nobody here would do _that_. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 10:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/933 "2018-02-18T10:55:45Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > Humans are, flatly never free. To exist is to be bound to something. To exist as a human is to be bound to many things; your body, your surroundings, your family, your society, your universe, your understanding of it through your senses, mind and soul. And I agree with this wholeheartedly, as it reflects what I have been saying prior multiple times before. > [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > Freedom is a lie. It will always be a lie, or a hyperbolic term to describe a much more subtle concept; the ability to make mistakes with little to no consequence. But, unfortunately, I cannot agree with this. For me, freedom is not a lie. It is a force that separates all these bonds. Or the condition where these all these bonds are simply absent. It is a world without laws, without families, without society, without loyalty, without friendship, without love. And it is probably the most hellish nightmare that I can think about. This is why I so eagerly fight against freedom worshipping zealots. > [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > The truth is that there are many ways to do something, but only one best way. The problem is knowing that way and having the fortitude to always do it, without fail. Thank you for your words, they are truly profound. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 11:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/934 "2018-02-18T11:24:00Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > The Empire curbs aggression from the State, you say? Really? So the Empire didn’t exist when the State invaded the Fed’s capital system and retook Caldari Prime? I didn’t say it was a _perfect_ deterrent. The Caldari Prime Incident was an extremely limited incident, a lightning raid as it were, that was in no way tenable should the Federation Navy respond in force. But, the will to respond in force was not there, because the Federation politicians knew well that such a response could draw in the Empire as well. So they chose to de-escalate, by signing a treaty recognising the facts on the ground. It’s a different strategy, but one that works, to an extent. One might even say that CONCORD & the Empire have a good cop/bad cop act going on. Identification of which is which, is an exercise left to the reader. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/935 "2018-02-18T14:32:14Z")
> [@Valerie\_Valate](#): > > The Caldari Prime Incident was an extremely limited incident, a lightning raid as it were, that was in no way tenable should the Federation Navy respond in force. I strongly disagree. Even if Federation Navy responded in force, the situation wouldn’t have changed. Our Navy is the best in the Cluster, and backed up by security forces of all Eight, filthy frogs would have no chance against us even if they threw absolutely everything they had against us in that battle. > [@Valerie\_Valate](#): > > But, the will to respond in force was not there, because the Federation politicians knew well that such a response could draw in the Empire as well. We had will to liberate our Homeworld, and for this we did that - gathered everything we had, baring our flanks. It was a gamble, and we won it. Feds are just cowards. Though their fears have the basis: if they did that, they both would lose their fleet to our ships, and their systems would be bare for the Empire to invade. And I am pretty sure we would still have ships to return to our systems to defend them in case of possible Minmatar attack. The Federation on the other hand… would be collapsed. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/936 "2018-02-18T15:21:39Z")
> [@Valerie\_Valate](#): > > I didn’t say it was a perfect deterrent. So the Empire is what keeps the peace, except when a culture that’s historically _not_ an aggressor just happens to go on the offensive for a specific purpose everyone in the cluster’s been hearing them openly and loudly say they’re planning for over a century. But hey, the Empire’s prevented all of those other offensives they _weren’t_ planning, right? By the way, the Federation choosing not to escalate doesn’t reflect on how well “the Empire curbs the aggression of the State”. Nor would the Empire have been likely to attempt to intervene, since the treaty they have with the State is at best a mutual defense pact (it’s not, actually, but it’s implied) and the State were the aggressors. To do so would’ve meant needing to move forces toward Genesis, even if they used the Niarja pipeline for the majority of their aid. That would have left them open to attack from the Republic. You see, this whole ‘balance of power’ thing? It actually relies on _all_ parties, not one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/937 "2018-02-18T17:30:56Z")
What’s wrong with eudaimonia? ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/938 "2018-02-18T18:25:55Z")
I don’t think Mr. Shutaq meant cynics in that way. Cynics more in the vein of _not_ believing in the goodness of humanity. Sadly, he seems to have a bit of that same cynicism. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/939 "2018-02-18T18:39:45Z")
Well … his version’s not really cynicism, though. Cynicism can be described as romanticism with a broken heart-- taking that same gauzy veil of light and turning it dark. It still obscures the realities of the world; it just flips the polarity around. Lord Consort Newelle’s been too thoughtful about what he thinks of people for me to think he suffers much from such a thing. He can be glib; he can be judgmental; but he pays attention to details, and puts a good bit of thought into what he thinks of people and why. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/940 "2018-02-18T18:50:53Z")
Perhaps you’re correct, Ms. Jenneth. It might just be that Mr. Shutaq was a bit frustrated with some of the comments in this discussion. It _is_ hard though, trying to get all these different people with their varied experiences and opinions to agree on any topic. I don’t envy him, that is for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/941 "2018-02-18T19:07:21Z")
Well … he’s not the only one to get frustrated, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/942 "2018-02-18T19:17:31Z")
No, certainly not. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/943 "2018-02-18T19:30:09Z")
> [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](#): > > What’s wrong with eudaimonia? The Amarr have an irrational terror of anything with ‘daimon’—or similar spellings—in it. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=46) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=48)