# (Actually) Interesting Ideas for Ending the Amarr-Minmatar Conflict **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263 "2017-11-28T22:27:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 65
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 11:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1285 "2018-04-13T11:50:41Z")
I’ve often been saying that in order to understand each other we shall first define the terms we use. And considering how you have defined ‘Godless’, I am not among them. I was one according to the definition that I have foolishly assumed by straightforward linguistic disassembly without knowing sociocultural definitions and without asking you first, and for this I bring my apologies. You were absolutely correct. Unfortunately, I am a bit too much straighforward person, and this is far from the first time when I misuse the word by assuming it’s literal meaning and put myself into awkward situation by doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Lursan\_Ayin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lursan_ayin/32/66108_2.png) [@Lursan\_Ayin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lursan_Ayin)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 5:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1286 "2018-04-13T17:33:48Z")
Those who are enslaved are only those who have made themselves Unworthy. If the Matari would simply embrace the Word, they would be free alongside all other Chosen. Yet instead, they chose to isolate themselves from God, to kill entire cities because the people inside are ruled by the wrong person, to murder loyal Amarrians in cold blood for the crime of being pure! But… no. The Amarr must make concessions. The Amarr must change. The Amarr must become more like the Gallente, more hateful, more spiteful, must lose their connection to god because _we choose our faith._ I believe that peace can come. I believe the Matari can bring that peace. That peace requires faith. _And the Matari have no faith._ ---
**Author:** ![Arnulf\_Ogunkoya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arnulf_ogunkoya/32/380841_2.png) [@Arnulf\_Ogunkoya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arnulf_Ogunkoya)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1287 "2018-04-13T18:10:43Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > Punishments only for Captains, Admirals and the originators of the orders themselves. > > Dishonorable discharges for those who follow illegal orders, enslavement as punishment for the originators of the orders, with execution being reserved for particularly egregious offenders. No extraditions; the Republic cannot be trusted to conduct fair trials or render just sentences. Holy Imperial law can and should be applied. > > No need to make bloodbaths of these affairs. Personally that sounds workable. However It would be my feeling that having RSS or Justice observers might go some way to making that process work. Possibly even a combination of that & CONCORD observers. However I have the depressing feeling that the people organising these raids have arranged things so they are not, technically, guilty of breaking Imperial law. I would suggest a thorough audit of recent slave “acquisitions” by the relevant authorities as a first step. Possibly even checking that slaves purported to come from internal breeding programs actually did so. And, yes, Arrendis. I know Imperial slave breeding programs are inhuman in and of themselves. But one step at a time to start the journey of a thousand light years. ---
**Author:** ![Arnulf\_Ogunkoya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arnulf_ogunkoya/32/380841_2.png) [@Arnulf\_Ogunkoya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arnulf_Ogunkoya)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1288 "2018-04-13T18:13:55Z")
> [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](#): > > It varies from organisation to organisation, in my experience. > > For example, when I was working with Pyre Falcon, we had absolutely no ability or interest in incarcerating prisoners of war. During our active periods in the warzone we had agreements to turn POWs over to various agencies, depending on how positive our corporation’s relationship to the other side was. > > Some of those agreements were reciprocal, whereas others were unilateral - for example, we once turned over all Matari POWs to Ava Starfire’s tribe for her to sort out - however, when that agreement broke down there were periods when we turned them over to the Imperial authorities because, in the absence of any other agreement, we were sort of forced to give them over to our paymaster. Bear in mind I am not talking about POW’s taken by capsuleer groups. I am talking about civilians taken in raids by ships that seem to be baseline Caldari military. The State being the pragmatic institution that it is I can’t see it passing up the chance to get it’s military some combat experience (well, combat from a certain point of view anyway) and get paid for it into the bargain. ---
**Author:** ![Ravana\_729](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ravana_729/32/55540_2.png) [@Ravana\_729](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ravana_729)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1289 "2018-04-13T19:51:40Z")
Well gee, God is sure starting to sound a lot like _consciousness_…isn’t “he”? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1290 "2018-04-13T19:52:25Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > No extraditions; the Republic cannot be trusted to conduct fair trials or render just sentences. Then how can the Republic trust the Empire to actually conduct fair trials? Especially when the crimes are being committed within the Republic’s jurisdiction, not the Empire’s? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1291 "2018-04-13T19:54:07Z")
> [@Lursan\_Ayin](#): > > If the Matari would simply embrace the Word, they would be free alongside all other Chosen. Yes, if the Matari would simply agree to unquestioningly obey the Amarr Throne (as the representative of God in the physical world), we’d be perfectly free… to, you know, obey, unthinkingly, unquestioningly, or be punished. In other words, you know, _not free_. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1292 "2018-04-13T19:56:05Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Unfortunately, I am a bit too much straighforward person, and this is far from the first time when I misuse the word by assuming it’s literal meaning and put myself into awkward situation by doing so. Or, you could be _right_, and Le Serpent there could be coming up with a completely personal definition that wouldn’t be agreed with by the people who _actually_ have authority to make such distinctions within the Amarr faith. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1293 "2018-04-13T20:34:05Z")
Would extradition to CONCORD courts suffice? Of course, we’d expect similar treatment of Minmatar raiders and terrorists. The last time the Republic had a government willing to oppose such acts, it became so unpopular it was deposed. Clearly the Minmatar cannot be trusted to police their own either. ---
**Author:** ![Lursan\_Ayin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lursan_ayin/32/66108_2.png) [@Lursan\_Ayin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lursan_Ayin)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1294 "2018-04-13T20:39:23Z")
I fail to see how blind obediance to the Empress is any different from blind obediance to the Tribal Leaders. Personally I think the office of the Emperor has become corrupted by Evil, but that’s not the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1295 "2018-04-13T20:57:25Z")
Why would you even _suggest_ blind obedience to the Tribal Chiefs? If the Chiefs order something objectionable, the people will complain to their Clan leaders. If the Clans find the complaints warranted, they can _remove_ their Tribal Chief by whatever means that Tribe has in place to do so, and replace them with one who will argue for a change in direction. The Tribes are expected to hold our leaders accountable. The Empire is expected to _obey_. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1296 "2018-04-13T21:01:53Z")
Actually, Aldrith, tell me what you think of this one: CONCORD courts to determine the guilt/innocence of offenders charged with what amount to violations of international law (ie: members of one empire’s military/command & control structure/governmental or ruling heirarchy\* who have used that position to violate laws in another Empire’s territory). _Sentencing_ to be determined by a panel of judges selected in equal numbers from the offender’s nation and the nation that has suffered the crime, with a CONCORD officer of neither national origin as arbitrator in case the panel becomes deadlocked. - This would mean someone wielding (examples, but not limited to) Parlimentary authority, a position of power/influence within one of the Tribes/Houses/Megacorps/Unruly Mobs (or whatever the Gallente have), etc. ---
**Author:** ![Tyrel\_Toov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tyrel_toov/32/387953_2.png) [@Tyrel\_Toov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tyrel_Toov)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1297 "2018-04-13T21:40:32Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Unruly Mobs (or whatever the Gallente have) a senator? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1298 "2018-04-13T21:51:37Z")
Heh. No no, I mean at the level below the top Federal government. For example, the Tribes have their Chiefs, who represent them on the Tribal Council, but they aren’t the only one wielding Tribal power. There’s a whole governmental infrastructure within each Tribe, just as there’s a corporate hierarchy and power structure within each Caldari Megacorp. ---
**Author:** ![Tyrel\_Toov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tyrel_toov/32/387953_2.png) [@Tyrel\_Toov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tyrel_Toov)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1299 "2018-04-13T23:15:15Z")
The gallente would probably just send an intern. ---
**Author:** ![Arnulf\_Ogunkoya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arnulf_ogunkoya/32/380841_2.png) [@Arnulf\_Ogunkoya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arnulf_Ogunkoya)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 11:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1300 "2018-04-13T23:23:02Z")
Careful now. This is all starting to read like actual constructive discussion. If our respective governments actually took note and implemented any of this likely the world would end (yes, I am joking about that last part). Not that this is likely to happen but it makes a nice change of pace for us anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Tyrel\_Toov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tyrel_toov/32/387953_2.png) [@Tyrel\_Toov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tyrel_Toov)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1301 "2018-04-13T23:31:52Z")
Should I throw out some ad hominems to bring things back to normal? I’m sure I could get Kimmy riled up again… ---
**Author:** ![Arnulf\_Ogunkoya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arnulf_ogunkoya/32/380841_2.png) [@Arnulf\_Ogunkoya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arnulf_Ogunkoya)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1302 "2018-04-13T23:35:21Z")
> [@Tyrel\_Toov](#): > > Should I throw out some ad hominems to bring things back to normal? I’m sure I could get Kimmy riled up again… Please don’t. That’s about as easy as blowing up Krull, and less rewarding. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1303 "2018-04-14T01:13:29Z")
OH HEL NO! ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1304 "2018-04-14T02:06:43Z")
But Wy, Vern? Also: 1300. 700 more to go! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=64) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=66)