# (Actually) Interesting Ideas for Ending the Amarr-Minmatar Conflict **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263 "2017-11-28T22:27:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 73
**Author:** ![Lursan\_Ayin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lursan_ayin/32/66108_2.png) [@Lursan\_Ayin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lursan_Ayin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 11:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1445 "2018-04-21T23:26:39Z")
You do not have to embrace the light, the Matari and Gallente have shown that they will not, and while I believe it foolish I cannot change them. You, Arrendis, will never be of the Faith. I accept that. I accept that I will never be able to convert you. Maybe I can convert others. But you will never change. I accept that. I ask again, however. And I want you to answer this with your true opinion. How does that denial of Faith. Justify Murder. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1446 "2018-04-21T23:28:03Z")
> [@Lursan\_Ayin](#): > > Maybe I can convert your clan. > [@Lursan\_Ayin](#): > > How does that denial of Faith. You announce your intention to murder my Clan, and ask how killing you to defend them is justified? ---
**Author:** ![Lursan\_Ayin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lursan_ayin/32/66108_2.png) [@Lursan\_Ayin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lursan_Ayin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1447 "2018-04-21T23:35:47Z")
First, I removed that section. Second, that continues to not make sense. I say again, you do not need to listen. You do not need to convert. Once upon a time Amarrians killed you if you did not convert, but not **now**. Not **today** So I ask again. How is cold blooded murder the correct action in the face of priests with books. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1448 "2018-04-21T23:43:53Z")
> [@Lursan\_Ayin](#): > > Maybe I can convert others. You still announce your intention to attempt to kill off the Matari people. And I say again: killing to defend them is perfectly justified. You accuse me of not reading, but it’s you who doesn’t seem to have read the basis of my own position, though I’ve said it as clearly as can be: Our legacy, our ways, our culture and beliefs… _this is who we are_. Those things, and ensuring those things continue, is _what our lives exist for_. That **is** our lives’ purpose. Your efforts seek to kill us, and replace us with another group of Amarr slaves—because make no mistake, legally ‘enslaved’ or not, _you are a slave to the Empress’ will_. That is what your faith demands: unquestioning obedience. You would destroy all that makes us Minmatar and replace the Matari with… more Ammatar. If this is not an act of aggression and cultural violence, why is it illegal for other faiths to evangelize in the Empire? Your own Empress and Theology Council _clearly_ understand exactly what it is your proselytizing is, and if someone is caught doing it _to you_, they will be punished—potentially including being put to death. So don’t try being outraged and scandalized with _me_, just because _you_ don’t understand what it is **your own faith** knows you to be doing. ---
**Author:** ![Lursan\_Ayin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lursan_ayin/32/66108_2.png) [@Lursan\_Ayin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lursan_Ayin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 11:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1449 "2018-04-21T23:51:48Z")
I understand. You think that by preaching our Faith to the Minmatar we’re erasing your culture. So, you kill us in the name of the people who dare to be converted? Who dare to believe? Who dare to go outside traditional beliefs and pursue their own destiny, their own faith? That’s right to you? I understand what you say. And I think you’re insane. ---
**Author:** ![Lursan\_Ayin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lursan_ayin/32/66108_2.png) [@Lursan\_Ayin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lursan_Ayin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1450 "2018-04-21T23:54:23Z")
I want to ask everyone here. Is it right to kill a preacher because you’re afraid someone you know might believe what they say? Is it right to scour a planet because the people living on it believe something you don’t? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1451 "2018-04-21T23:54:58Z")
Defending those you would dupe before they can be fooled? Before you can lie to them and take advantage of their naivete? Yeah, that’s right. Your turn to answer the question posed to you once already: > [@Arrendis](#): > > If this is not an act of aggression and cultural violence, why is it illegal for other faiths to evangelize in the Empire? ---
**Author:** ![Lursan\_Ayin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lursan_ayin/32/66108_2.png) [@Lursan\_Ayin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lursan_Ayin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 11:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1452 "2018-04-21T23:57:32Z")
It’s not. They just don’t get very far because most of Amarr follow the Faith. In fact, there are… no religions outside of Amarrian sects that actively evangelize. At least none that I can think of. ---
**Author:** ![Lursan\_Ayin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lursan_ayin/32/66108_2.png) [@Lursan\_Ayin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lursan_Ayin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1453 "2018-04-21T23:58:18Z")
Bob, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1454 "2018-04-21T23:58:35Z")
Pilot, I’m gonna recommend you go and get yourself fact-checked. It most definitely _is_. ---
**Author:** ![Lursan\_Ayin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lursan_ayin/32/66108_2.png) [@Lursan\_Ayin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lursan_Ayin)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1455 "2018-04-22T00:00:45Z")
Depends on the religion. I guess the main difference is that the Amarrian empire is built on our religion, whereas the others are not. It’s the same reason many Matari aren’t shunned in other Empires for having specific tattoos. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 12:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1456 "2018-04-22T00:07:26Z")
> [@Lursan\_Ayin](#): > > I want to ask everyone here. > > Is it right to kill a preacher because you’re afraid someone you know might believe what they say? > > Is it right to scour a planet because the people living on it believe something you don’t? A preacher who’s very core of identity contains the Reclaiming? Absolutely. His stated intent is to erase our culture and people from New Eden, replacing it with something else. Something vile, that has hurt our people every since we first encountered it. Claiming that it is otherwise is nonsensical. That _is_ the Reclaiming, and if you claim otherwise, you’re in conflict with your very own scriptures and faith. As for scouring planets, history shows that’s _your_ modus operandi. > [@Lursan\_Ayin](#): > > It’s not. > > They just don’t get very far because most of Amarr follow the Faith. > > In fact, there are… no religions outside of Amarrian sects that actively evangelize. At least none that I can think of. … well that’s just a blatant lie. Proselytizing a faith that is not the Rite in the Empire is a surefire way of prematurely meeting your maker. Do you actually know your own damned culture and faith at all? ---
**Author:** ![Lursan\_Ayin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lursan_ayin/32/66108_2.png) [@Lursan\_Ayin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lursan_Ayin)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1457 "2018-04-22T00:12:03Z")
I repeat myself over and over and over yet they refuse to hear me. They refuse to listen because it doesn’t fit their perception of the Empire. It doesn’t fit what they want to believe. Fine. I’ll be in Amarr for the next few weeks, taking confessions and forgiving sins. You’re free to come kill me for daring to believe in my faith. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1458 "2018-04-22T00:15:24Z")
> [@Lursan\_Ayin](#): > > They refuse to listen because it doesn’t fit their perception of the Empire. Hi, listen, I’m just gonna give you a tiny little heads-up before yours gets bitten off: Miz grew up in the Empire. As a slave. She’s got a better idea than you do of what the Reclaiming really is, promise. You can believe in your faith all you like. You come near my people and try to poison them with it, I’ll blow your arse back to Athra. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1459 "2018-04-22T02:22:26Z")
> [@Lursan\_Ayin](#): > > They refuse to listen because it doesn’t fit their perception of the Empire. Have you thought: “Maybe those who don’t hear me have seen with their eyes what is happening around them? Maybe some of them trust their eyes more than the words of others?” Your eyes can decieve you, but words are more likely the culprit before your eyes… ---
**Author:** ![Ravana\_729](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ravana_729/32/55540_2.png) [@Ravana\_729](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ravana_729)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 3:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1460 "2018-04-22T03:32:34Z")
What’s wrong with _paladins_? Gotta give the kids something to get excited about in the corp ad. These style points are important…war is a bloody business by its very definition…although if you had paid attention you would see I have never actually flown _anything_ for them…I’m actually on vacation at the moment. I know exactly my own politics, and my reasons, and I don’t care about the rest of you. I’m not here to fraternize. I have a draw to the Federation, but no fealty. I have a draw to Amarr, but no fealty. I’m just here for the ride, man, and I’m going to learn what I can on the way. I know what I’m looking for and right now it’s Republican heads. If that makes me a holy paladin, ■■■■ yes, let me try that and see how it fits. Interesting perspective though…me, a holy paladin. I thank you for your insight. ---
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/515671_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 3:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1461 "2018-04-22T03:40:36Z")
Pilot Ayin my perception of your empire is what I’ve seen with my own eyes from reading your scriptures and heard from your contemporaries with my own ears. Arrendis and Miz have it exactly right; you seek to eradicate all cultures and civilizations other than your own because your deity commanded it. Let’s at least be honest about the reclaiming and what it was, is and forever will be; forced conversion, slavery, cultural annihilation and murder. ---
**Author:** ![Arnulf\_Ogunkoya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arnulf_ogunkoya/32/380841_2.png) [@Arnulf\_Ogunkoya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arnulf_Ogunkoya)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 9:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1462 "2018-04-22T09:47:10Z")
> [@Ravana\_729](#): > > What’s wrong with _paladins_? Gotta give the kids something to get excited about in the corp ad. These style points are important…war is a bloody business by its very definition…although if you had paid attention you would see I have never actually flown _anything_ for them…I’m actually on vacation at the moment. > > I know exactly my own politics, and my reasons, and I don’t care about the rest of you. I’m not here to fraternize. I have a draw to the Federation, but no fealty. I have a draw to Amarr, but no fealty. I’m just here for the ride, man, and I’m going to learn what I can on the way. I know what I’m looking for and right now it’s Republican heads. If that makes me a holy paladin, ■■■■ yes, let me try that and see how it fits. > > Interesting perspective though…me, a holy paladin. I thank you for your insight. So what you’re saying here is you are lying in your corp description to attract naive pilots. Well fair enough, but not something you should admit to in public if you want to be effective. Guess I’ll have to add propagandist to the list of things you aren’t good at. ---
**Author:** ![Arnulf\_Ogunkoya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arnulf_ogunkoya/32/380841_2.png) [@Arnulf\_Ogunkoya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arnulf_Ogunkoya)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 9:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1463 "2018-04-22T09:53:46Z")
> [@Lursan\_Ayin](#): > > I repeat myself over and over and over yet they refuse to hear me. > They refuse to listen because it doesn’t fit their perception of the Empire. > It doesn’t fit what they want to believe. > Fine. > I’ll be in Amarr for the next few weeks, taking confessions and forgiving sins. > You’re free to come kill me for daring to believe in my faith. The thing is. Does anyone truly believe in something when they are not allowed exposure to other ideas? The empire seems to feel that most of it’s subjects need to be shielded from foreign & heretical modes of thought in case they are attracted to them. That speaks to me of an insecurity with the legitimacy of the faith that is being defended. If your faith is worth anything at all then people would stick to it even with alternatives on offer. And if you want to know how to preach to the Minmatar & not get shot I’d suggest a chat with Father Goose. He’s been at it for some time. Well before the Toy Wars. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 11:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263/1464 "2018-04-22T11:19:10Z")
> [@Lursan\_Ayin](#): > > I want to ask everyone here. > > Is it right to kill a preacher because you’re afraid someone you know might believe what they say? > > Is it right to scour a planet because the people living on it believe something you don’t? Depends; the devil is in the details… But it certainly _can_ be. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=72) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/actually-interesting-ideas-for-ending-the-amarr-minmatar-conflict/42263.md?page=74)