# Ad Fidem Ex Industria - Some personal thoughts **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618 "2019-03-25T23:06:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kranacoi\_Halvora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kranacoi_halvora/32/486083_2.png) [@Kranacoi\_Halvora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kranacoi_Halvora)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/1 "2019-03-25T23:06:15Z")
I didn’t join SFRIM with very high hopes for myself or very high thoughts about the Amarr religion. I was accepted as a Perigrinans – a traveler, visitor. Transient in its very conceptualization, just as I’ve spent the rest of my time in the heavens. Most concepts and ideas have adopted a similar pattern, wavering in and out with slowness and situational context. However, faith is a concept that I’ve found to be much more sudden than most in how it approaches one’s life. Most things of such magnitude require years, decades, a lifetime of consideration and thought for one to think they have the concept figured out. However, faith can come in a day, hour, second… or an instant. Isolation was something I used to see as a punishment for wrongdoing, a means of making someone suffer in silence. I have since come to learn that isolation, while it can be at times torturous, is at the same time one of the greatest blessings that a person can experience. There is a feeling of holy order as a mining laser buzzes, as a reprocessing facility bashes rocks with chaos to a beat, as a reactor gently hums and bubbles. In it all is still the core activity of creating value, but I have realized that there is also the ability to create spiritual value alongside economic value in one’s activities. Many Gallente brothers and sisters would see me as a traitor for joining SFRIM – indeed, one has already expressed their disappointment with me over it. To you, sibling of _la Patrie_ , I hope you can understand why I chose to make this journey. I would like to openly state that I would still not call myself someone of the Faith itself, but someone of faith in inner peace. I have been living by a maxim for the past weeks in SFRIM, one that has been transformative to my worldview. It’s reminded me that the world isn’t quite as bad as it might look, or at least that one doesn’t have to look at it as a collection of negativity all the time. _Ad Fidem Ex Industria – To faith, through work._ ---
**Author:** ![Arsia\_Elkin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arsia_elkin/32/388703_2.png) [@Arsia\_Elkin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arsia_Elkin)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 5:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/2 "2019-03-26T05:20:06Z")
> [@Kranacoi\_Halvora](#): > > I would like to openly state that I would still not call myself someone of the Faith itself That’s unfortunate. In time, hopefully, that will change. Regardless, I’m glad you are finding fulfillment with your corporation. SFRIM, and indeed LUMEN are in general, a wonderful bunch of people. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 6:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/3 "2019-03-26T06:06:15Z")
So, what’s your stance on slavery? ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/4 "2019-03-26T15:58:36Z")
Ahh, it feels so warm, when young men run from depravity of amoral Federation into civilized societies! SFRIM are the good people. I hope you will find what you seek. ---
**Author:** ![Azazel\_Drakonis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/azazel_drakonis/32/495743_2.png) [@Azazel\_Drakonis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Azazel_Drakonis)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/5 "2019-03-27T13:51:48Z")
> [@Kranacoi\_Halvora](#): > > Many Gallente brothers and sisters would see me as a traitor for joining SFRIM You choosing your own path despite the “norm” is the epitome of what it means to be Gallente. A true Gallente would not forsake you for this. However…I am as curious as Elsebeth. What is your stance on slavery? As it is not your career path nor your chosen religion or even your affiliation which they’d condemn, if not your willingness to steal away the freedom of another. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/6 "2019-03-27T23:08:54Z")
I am not sure he becomes a holder, yet I see two questions to him about the stance on… slavery? Why? I see no evidences of him planning to work directly with slaves, why would you ask him that? It seems to me the same, as if you would ask a secretary of a holo media outlet on a job interview how she feels about incarcerated criminals, if she clearly won’t be working with them. ---
**Author:** ![Azazel\_Drakonis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/azazel_drakonis/32/495743_2.png) [@Azazel\_Drakonis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Azazel_Drakonis)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/7 "2019-03-28T13:23:57Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > It seems to me the same, as if you would ask a secretary of a holo media outlet on a job interview how she feels about incarcerated criminals, if she clearly won’t be working with them. No it’s more like asking her how she feels about the media being produced. As any self-respecting human being would not support a subject they strongly disagreed with, surely? ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/8 "2019-03-28T21:55:27Z")
> [@Azazel\_Drakonis](#): > > No it’s more like asking her how she feels about the media being produced. As any self-respecting human being would not support a subject they strongly disagreed with, surely? Well, partly, sure. But, really, what a personality would object against incarcerating criminals? Maybe if only that secretary would be a criminal herself and will want to set a world ablaze and let all other troublemakers to run free and wreak havoc. But I am pretty sure such asocial tendencies are very easily spotted and she wouldn’t get even a chance for a job interview with them. And in our case, I am pretty sure that Mr. Halvora had passed background checks and doesn’t have connections that would stain his honor. Besides, he has an impression of a man with an inquisitive mind, interested in religions and philosophies rather than fates of sentenced to slavery personnel. ---
**Author:** ![Azazel\_Drakonis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/azazel_drakonis/32/495743_2.png) [@Azazel\_Drakonis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Azazel_Drakonis)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 1:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/9 "2019-03-29T13:28:45Z")
I didn’t know how to say it before so I just rolled with it but your example is just ridiculous. Of all of the things you could have compared it to, this is just terrible. However, next time I want a good laugh, I’m make a point to seek out your opinion on the IGS. > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Mr. Halvora had passed background checks and doesn’t have connections that would stain his honor This is kind of a moot point as his background check was processed by his employers… ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/10 "2019-03-29T14:34:50Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > I am not sure he becomes a holder, yet I see two questions to him about the stance on… slavery? > Why? Commander Kim, the reason it has been asked is because his affiliation with SFRIM, an Amarr aligned organization raises the question of whether or not he tacitly supports the institution of slavery, which SFRIM clearly does. As a Galente Citizen, an empire that is famous for its stance on freedom and anti slavery, as well as an allied power to the Republic which is also a staunch anti slavery power, this raises questions. As a Matari currently flying with an Amarr Loyalist corporation, I get much the same questions. > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > what a personality would object against incarcerating criminals? The issue of slavery here has nothing to do about criminals; The institution of slavery is strong within Amarr, which is supported by SFRIM. I refer not to the enslavement of criminals, but of the enslavement of non-criminals, of innocents and forcing them to serve even though they have committed no crime. All in the name of their reclaiming. * * * Edited for accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![Karmilla\_Strife](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karmilla_strife/32/439678_2.png) [@Karmilla\_Strife](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karmilla_Strife)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/11 "2019-03-29T18:25:08Z")
I’ll allow Perigrinans Halvora to answer his own questions, but I should clarify one point of yours Mr. Aloga. SFRIM supports the legal rights of Amarrian Holders to own slaves, as well as the laws of the Amarr Empire. So yes, we support the institution of slavery, however, SFRIM as an organization does not have the legal authority to enslave anyone, much less non-criminals. SFRIM has never enslaved anyone. Indeed we’ve even assisted in the liberation of at least a couple million illegal slaves that I know about. ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/12 "2019-03-29T18:54:35Z")
> [@Karmilla\_Strife](#): > > Indeed we’ve even assisted in the liberation of at least a couple million illegal slaves that I know about. And were these slaves returned to their homes, left in peace without any efforts to ‘reclaim’ them if they were not adherents of you’re faith? ---
**Author:** ![Karmilla\_Strife](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karmilla_strife/32/439678_2.png) [@Karmilla\_Strife](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karmilla_Strife)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/13 "2019-03-29T19:25:55Z")
Yes, I believe we even worked with Ushra’Khan members given the widespread scale of those events. SFRIM supports the Reclaiming, but we support it through legal means. ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/14 "2019-03-29T19:27:44Z")
In that case I shall amend my previous statement to more accurately reflect this truth. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 11:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/15 "2019-03-29T23:34:04Z")
> [@Karmilla\_Strife](#): > > Indeed we’ve even assisted in the liberation of at least a couple million illegal slaves that I know about. To clarify: were these capsuleer-held slaves, slaves held by criminal organizations like the Angel Cartel, or slaves illegally taken in raids in Republic space by the Imperial Navy? And, roughly, in what proportions? ---
**Author:** ![Karmilla\_Strife](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karmilla_strife/32/439678_2.png) [@Karmilla\_Strife](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karmilla_Strife)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 12:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/16 "2019-03-30T00:46:57Z")
I don’t have the exact numbers but I would estimate about 20% to 30% from capsuleers (mostly from Nauplius and market orders), and 70% to 80% from illegal slavers, which yes, would include the Amarrians engaged in illegal slavery who were exposed during an outbreak of Human Containment Facilities last year. They weren’t part of the Imperial Navy, and I do not believe the Imperial Navy conducts slave raids on the scale suggested by capsuleers who do wetwork for Republic security agents. I’ve done enough work for security agents all around the cluster, and they’ll say anything to motivate a capsuleer to do their dirty work. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 1:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/17 "2019-03-30T01:26:43Z")
If they aren’t then what are they? Or, for a better point, if they really aren’t and there’s thousands of them why don’t they seem to be noticed by the empire? I don’t expect you have an answer as, how could you? Just something to think about is all… Added: I would ask the same from Republic forces on the same topic. Something is not right across the board. ---
**Author:** ![Karmilla\_Strife](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karmilla_strife/32/439678_2.png) [@Karmilla\_Strife](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karmilla_Strife)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 4:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/18 "2019-03-30T04:00:34Z")
This will be my last post on the subject here. I don’t want to further derail Perigrinans Halvora’s thread. If further discussion is needed, I’m open to private conversation. My personal theory is that while all of the big four lease space from the others, they cannot act directly against their lessees. The Republic (in a hypothetical, but likely, case) isn’t happy about Amarrian plantations in Ani constellation (which probably use slave labor within the station). So the local Republic security agents, aware as they probably are of Amarrian convoys to and from those locations and possibly other leased locations in the constellation, steer capsuleers into attacking those convoys and the Republic can deny responsibility. The Security agent says they are conducting slave raids, and indeed there are Amarrian ships at the location as promised. They even have Imperial Navy tags and the Amarr Empire gets upset with the capsuleer who destroys those ships! Except Amarrian ships have a reason to operate in that constellation since they lease space there, from the Republic. You can accept that mission and watch for 23 hours a day, for up to a week and that “slave raid” never ends. The Republic Forces never show up, the Amarr Forces never raid a damn thing. I’ve seen Amarrian security agents do the same thing. They’ll try and steer me to attack illegal Gallente miners in a system. But if I go to the system there are leased CreoDron factories and warehouse stations in system. Is CreoDron shipping minerals 16 jumps out of the Federation in order to take advantage of Amarrian slave labor aboard their own stations? Or are local Amarrian lords upset at the well negotiated lease that CreoDron has in Bika and they want those minerals for themselves so they persuade nearby security agents to get capsuleers to fix the problem? What’s more likely? You’re correct. Something is not right in both of these cases. Agents of all of the factions are very eager to manipulate capsuleers into all sorts of deniable actions. They’ll say anything to get you to do their dirty work, and they’ll pay a decent amount to get you to do it. Choose your missions wisely. Don’t believe everything the agents tell you, they always have an agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Kranacoi\_Halvora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kranacoi_halvora/32/486083_2.png) [@Kranacoi\_Halvora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kranacoi_Halvora)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 4:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/19 "2019-03-30T04:28:26Z")
I shall issue no official comment regarding my position on slavery at this time. However, I never have been and will continue to not be interested in becoming a Holder. ---
**Author:** ![Auriga\_Menkalinan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auriga_menkalinan/32/351666_2.png) [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auriga_Menkalinan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 8:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618/20 "2019-03-30T08:34:31Z")
> [@Kranacoi\_Halvora](#): > > I have realized that there is also the ability to create spiritual value alongside economic value in one’s activities. Your original proposition is an interesting one. It seems like a more positive rearrangement of the old Garouni saying “_[Egoithie](https://www.ateliermuseproductions.com/The_Garoun_Lunaries.pdf) makes work for idle hands_”. There is certainly satisfaction to be gained from work well done, especially where it is creative rather than destructive, and focussing on such tasks can allow space for contemplation that is otherwise squeezed out by the clamour and grind of daily life. If your experience with SFRIM has helped you find “_faith in inner peace_”, I congratulate you. You are right that we do not always have to look at the world negatively. That said, I urge you to remember to look at the world as it **is**. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ad-fidem-ex-industria-some-personal-thoughts/148618.md?page=2)