# AG Secret Santa 2021 **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 8, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825 "2021-12-08T15:08:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/21 "2021-12-09T17:54:49Z")
I don’t base my conclusions off of outliers. What is the _average_ gank? It’s like a Retriever with two T1 strip miners and some yield mods and maybe a medium extender and a shield hardener. The expected drop value from that is maybe in line with what you lose in terms of T2 blasters. A kill like that used to take one Catalyst, and now it will require two. This doesn’t affect ganking in the sense that it’s not a deterrent for any ganker to have to use a second account to solo-gank weaker targets. Those targets will continue to be ganked just as much as before. But it _will_ increase CCP’s bottom line because that’s an additional sub they might not have had before. This is all it is. Just a way for CCP to get more actively-subscribed accounts. They don’t _actually_ give two shits about the safety of miners. But this way they can get more money, _and_ tell all the whining carebears “see? we gave you the buff you always wanted! play more EVE!” It’s win-win for CCP and a net loss for everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Codename\_Razorback](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/codename_razorback/32/486427_2.png) [@Codename\_Razorback](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Codename_Razorback)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/22 "2021-12-09T18:21:45Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > a net loss for everyone else You act as though gankers have no choice but to gank. That’s such a limited perspective. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Adm\_Malkaviano](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/adm_malkaviano/32/496610_2.png) [@Adm\_Malkaviano](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Adm_Malkaviano)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/23 "2021-12-09T18:35:25Z")
the same could be said about miners or any other stuff in game, no? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/24 "2021-12-09T18:39:10Z")
> [@Codename\_Razorback](#): > > You act as though gankers have no choice but to gank. That’s such a limited perspective. 😕 They do what they must, for they are the only ones holding off the barbarians at the gates. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 12:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/25 "2021-12-10T00:24:17Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > A kill like that used to take one Catalyst, and now it will require two. Your right it doesn’t effect gankers that much but what it does mean they are more susceptible to interference from Ag , if we can neutralise that extra cat they fail , so it means if miners have guards and they are fast they might save their miners if the miners fitted the ship well . As I have said before mine in groups and work together . It’s fun trust me. As Aiko has been proving she is still ganking badly fitted ships with ease. As her blog and the story about Raven 1 shows , what a nice chap she found there🧐 ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 12:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/26 "2021-12-10T00:32:52Z")
> [@Githany\_Red](#): > > As her blog and the story about Raven 1 shows , what a nice chap she found there🧐 Yup. And you’re defending those people. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 12:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/27 "2021-12-10T00:40:13Z")
No, I don’t know him, I’m defending the act of or the right to mine , each group has nice people in and complete asshats . Saying that , I do enjoy killing the asshat gankers more but all must fall under my guns . I expect that type of reply to come from Aiko not you 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 1:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/29 "2021-12-10T01:02:08Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > You silently tolerate what they do because their position as “victims” aligns with your personal agenda. It is _convenient_ for you, so you let _their_ transgressions slide. That’s not true, if I was in the same sys when that was happening and it was in local , of course I would report it. We also have a strict code of behaviour in our corp , which is one place we can control and do. And I presume the guy has been reported or should be if it’s true but I wasn’t there. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 2:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/30 "2021-12-10T02:01:29Z")
> [@Githany\_Red](#): > > As her blog and the story about Raven 1 shows , what a nice chap she found there Jeez, that guy is totally unhinged. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 2:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/31 "2021-12-10T02:20:12Z")
What you’re seeing there isn’t even rare. This particular case might be at the more extreme end of the rage spectrum, but you can observe similar stuff a lot of the time in the ganking channel. I myself have **megabytes** of logs with chats like that from my war days. There’s something about psychos like that being drawn to carebear activities. I’ve _never_ seen anyone who engaged in PvP in some capacity act that way. I’ve observed a lot of cringy, broken-English smack-talk, sure, but never anything like _that._ By the way, do **not** report these people. Let them keep playing. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 4:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/33 "2021-12-10T04:08:54Z")
Sent your gift. I am now ready for my gift. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 4:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/34 "2021-12-10T04:10:27Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > This is a direct criticism of _you,_ not _them._ > > You interfere with gankers for a purpose. But do you interfere with people like “Raven x1” when they behave like that? Why do antigankers protect these people? Why? ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 4:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/35 "2021-12-10T04:21:46Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Why is it that antigankers protect these people? Why? It’s no more Githany’s responsibility to be concerned about who get’s protected and whether they are worthy, than it is your responsibility to consider who you are ganking and how they might respond. The white knights always push that gankers are are inflicting real emotional harm, or that maybe someone has a real life emergency, so you shouldn’t gank them if they appear AFK; and that it’s totally understandable how people respond so aggressively. That’s all rubbish, and in the same way, it’s also rubbish that Githany (or any other AG) is somehow responsible to pull up a someone who completely unhinges at having some space pixels go boom. That’s all on that individual and I totally agree that they shouldn’t be reported, and should stay in the game. It’s a great example of where the true toxicity lies. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 7:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/36 "2021-12-10T07:31:12Z")
I feel a little different, some lvl of abuse needs reporting, I have a friend that got attacked because of it. Luckily she survived . ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 7:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/37 "2021-12-10T07:39:17Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Sent your gift. > > I am now ready for my gift. Who did you send a gift too. Btw I’m preparing yours , I’ll send it when I get back on my pc ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 9:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/38 "2021-12-10T09:54:35Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > It’s no more Githany’s responsibility to be concerned about who get’s protected and whether they are worthy, than it is your responsibility to consider who you are ganking and how they might respond. Antigankers insist they are operating upon a moral imperative, defending innocents against unethical griefers who “go too far” and “ruin the game”. If you question that basis, the reason for antiganking begins to unravel. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 12:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/40 "2021-12-10T12:50:20Z")
Will someone gift Githany a gankalyst? 😈 Make sure to have it fitted properly and named Gertrude. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Codename\_Razorback](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/codename_razorback/32/486427_2.png) [@Codename\_Razorback](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Codename_Razorback)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/42 "2021-12-10T14:20:48Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > “grape” someone’s children How did my Secret Santa go so far off the rails? Can we come together and find some common ground? ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/43 "2021-12-10T14:37:36Z")
Need to start flagging their replies as being inappropriate or off topic. Just gifted @Githany_Red 500,000,000 ISK to help the AG cause… ---
**Author:** ![Adm\_Malkaviano](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/adm_malkaviano/32/496610_2.png) [@Adm\_Malkaviano](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Adm_Malkaviano)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825/44 "2021-12-10T15:10:38Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Nope, Githany, that’s not how morality works. This is a direct criticism of _you,_ not _them._ > > You interfere with gankers for a purpose. But do you interfere with people like “Raven x1” when they behave like that? Do you open chats with them, and tell them to not say such things? No, you don’t. Do you tell them that unless they cease behaving that way, you will be compelled to help their killers by ganking them and/or report them to CCP for their behavior? No, you don’t. You silently tolerate what they do because their position as “victims” aligns with your personal agenda. It is _convenient_ for you, so you let _their_ transgressions slide. I’m not sure I understood this entirely, but I’m totally sure we are not ready for this discussion yet. First we need to clean this place from the 300 alts per person. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ag-secret-santa-2021/340825.md?page=3)