# AGE OF CONSENT **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 29, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636 "2020-03-29T20:46:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2020, 11:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/41 "2020-03-29T23:07:16Z")
Yeah, “a number” was changed to “several”. Does not indicate any important change in the treatment of newbies, though. ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2020, 11:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/42 "2020-03-29T23:09:35Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > I think it’s good for noobs to killed (not greifed) early. That’s kind of a nature vs nurture argument. You are essentially saying that the kind of player a newbie will grow up to be is informed by what happens to them in the beginning, and further you are saying that experience of type X causes them to become a “good” kind of player. Well, you’d have to offer proof of that for us to believe it. It may seem like I am saying something similar in that I am saying experience of type Y will cause them to develop into a “bad” kind of player, but not quite. I am saying that experience of type Y (or X) requires a certain level of maturity to be encountered and assimilated successfully. It’s not that being forced to eat peas will make them not like peas. It is that forcing them to eat peas may not make any sense to them whatsoever and it may replace/preclude an experience that they might be able to make sense of, like eating apple sauce. And, what’s the rush, anyway? They can eat peas in a week or a month when they’re tired of apple sauce or want something a little chewier or just want something green. And now substitute mining veldspar in their Venture for eating apple sauce and substitute being exploded in their Venture for eating peas and you can see what I mean. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > if they can’t handle losing a ship they spent 30 minutes (or whatever) grinding for, they probably won’t like Eve. Losing a ship to a player is patently different from losing ships to the environment. In one scenario, they probably made a mistake and in the other, someone probably just took their ship away. I shouldn’t have to tell you that losing $20 dollars is different from being mugged for $20. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2020, 11:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/43 "2020-03-29T23:09:53Z")
Never said it changed anything in the treatment of New Players. Just said it’s been recently reviewed and updated by a CCP Dev which means it’s still important to CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2020, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/44 "2020-03-29T23:15:31Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > it’s still important to CCP Nobody argues with that. A person you answered to claimed that CCP considers current protections to be adequate, judging by absence of important changes in rookie griefing policy. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2020, 11:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/45 "2020-03-29T23:23:31Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > having some older player entice you out to low sec or null or a wormhole only to turn on you That’s already against the Eula -And I agree with that. You shouldn’t be able to grief newbros, put them in “the bonus room,” and all that crap. However, I think you are actually doing them a disservice by making them completely immune to PvP. I think it’s better they start learning about what Eve is and how to manage risk early, lest they wind up like [this guy](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-hope-youve-achieved-your-goal/224672). ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2020, 11:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/46 "2020-03-29T23:26:38Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > CCP doesn’t believe I don’t think you should speak for CCP. As for whether conflict impacts new player retention, I think the consensus is [expletive deleted] duh! What’s in question is HOW does it affect new player retention? Giving newbs a grace period might give us more information on that subject. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/47 "2020-03-29T23:29:43Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > I don’t think you should speak for CCP Here then: [https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5504176#post5504221](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5504176#post5504221) There are plenty of direct CCP comments around, so I don’t speak for them at all. They have done it just fine. He even mentions pvp as one of the strong indicators of players staying with the game. Then there’s this one: ![slide3](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/9/6/96e8df58305094b063a9b75c4c24f3a88425650c.jpeg) Third point on the slide. Not the cause of staying longer, but an indication that those that die in PVP are doing the types of activities that lead to longer retention. Then there’s this direct quote from CCP Quant: _…The most important variable deciding on whether you were still playing in month 4 was whether you got your ship destroyed by another player…_ That’s in this presentation: [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/9/b/9b58f56e23e782e38e54b390edd8392104b34c46.jpeg "EVE Fanfest 2015: Data Science behind EVE") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-jfvjMoe9Y&t=994) Why do you want less players in EVE? ---
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2020, 11:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/48 "2020-03-29T23:30:06Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > Giving newbs a grace period might give us more information on that subject. No, the stats would just show a sudden drop in retention then, because the rules suddenly changed. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2020, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/49 "2020-03-29T23:31:58Z")
I like the idea! If all 16 yr old’s had to play EVE before they could drive, I “think” the roads would be much safer! We would have much more defensive drivers out there. 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2020, 11:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/50 "2020-03-29T23:33:22Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > If all 16 yr old’s had to play EVE before they could drive, I “think” the roads would be much safer! There are no roadsigns in EVE. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2020, 11:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/51 "2020-03-29T23:34:21Z")
Yet they still learn fast. Well, at least some of them… ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/52 "2020-03-29T23:35:17Z")
> [@Ugren\_Okaski](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > it’s still important to CCP > > Nobody argues with that. A person you answered to claimed that CCP considers current protections to be adequate, judging by absence of important changes in rookie griefing policy. And I’m not arguing that, what I’m saying is the time stamp shows when the article was last reviewed and updated by a CCP employee. Those time stamps are only updated when anything in the article is changed. ---
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/53 "2020-03-29T23:35:24Z")
Who are “they” you are referring too? EVE does not fare any good as a driving simulator. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2020, 11:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/54 "2020-03-29T23:36:17Z")
New players… ---
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2020, 11:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/55 "2020-03-29T23:37:48Z")
New players learn fast in any game, actually. Why do you think EVE is unique in that sense, and EVE experience can be applied to driving? “We are not going to visit that city, there might be gatecamps”. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2020, 11:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/56 "2020-03-29T23:39:08Z")
You win. It’s not worth the typing. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2020, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/57 "2020-03-29T23:45:12Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Those time stamps are only updated when anything in the article is changed. No they aren’t. Databases timestamp at other times too. Proof of what you claim? ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2020, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/58 "2020-03-29T23:45:23Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > Well, you’d have to offer proof of that for us to believe it. It may seem like I am saying something similar in that I am saying experience of type Y will cause them to develop into a “bad” kind of player, but not quite. I am saying that experience of type Y (or X) requires a certain level of maturity to be encountered and assimilated successfully. It’s not that being forced to eat peas will make them not like peas. It is that forcing them to eat peas may not make any sense to them whatsoever and it may replace/preclude an experience that they might be able to make sense of, like eating apple sauce. And, what’s the rush, anyway? They can eat peas in a week or a month when they’re tired of apple sauce or want something a little chewier or just want something green. And now substitute mining veldspar in their Venture for eating apple sauce and substitute being exploded in their Venture for eating peas and you can see what I mean. You have a 2011 player crying about losing an orca and leaving the game. > [@I hope you've achieved your goal](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-hope-youve-achieved-your-goal/224672): > > If your goal was for three fourths of players to mine and craft and explore and otherwise spend their time to build something and for the other fourth to ensure they’ve wasted their time, then you have succeeded. I’m done wasting my time to be sport for highsec jerks. Why not just make all systems nullsec??? BYE This certain level of maturity seems to not be correlated with how long a player has been playing, and has more to do with who the player is as a person. > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > I shouldn’t have to tell you that losing $20 dollars is different from being mugged for $20. Only in EVE, could you get mugged for $20, and then proceed to become best friends with the mugger. ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/59 "2020-03-30T00:08:47Z")
> [@Solonius\_Rex](#): > > [New players dying at higher rates than old players] has nothing to do with better equipment or more skillpoints, and everything to do with experience. Like the experience of having a spaceship? In space? And trying to do things with it without someone blowing you away because you didn’t have the experience necessary to tell you not to do the thing that got you blown away? That experience? > [@Solonius\_Rex](#): > > Children have not matured Is it that they are “children” or is it just that they don’t have the experience of an adult? Isn’t that what makes someone “immature”, that they just don’t have an effective world model, yet? Aren’t you really saying that “real” society allows the individual the opportunity to develop an effective world model before it starts fully punishing them for their mistakes and imposing harsh consequences on them for their actions? What’s the difference between doing that in “real” society and doing that in “space” society? What’s good for one is good for the other; no? > [@Solonius\_Rex](#): > > we have a good enough understanding of the human brain in order to determine when the age of consent should be. Well, it depends on what the human is consenting to, too. Consenting to a sleepover at your friend’s is different to consenting to working 60 hours in a coal mine is different from consenting to giving away all your epic gear that you earned the hard way in Hello Kitty Online . . . but in none of these is the age of consent 0. In fact, find me ANY activity that someone with 0 applicable experience is allowed to participate in full-bore. Obviously, players will mature at different rates, so one 14 day old might be ready for a full blown fleet fight over a citadel in null sec whereas another 29 day old might not be ready to have his belt rat wrecks looted by a fellow noob. But that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be standards. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 12:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636/60 "2020-03-30T00:12:51Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > Consenting to a sleepover at your friend’s is different to consenting to working 60 hours in a coal mine is different from consenting to giving away all your epic gear that you earned the hard way in Hello Kitty Online . . . but in none of these is the age of consent 0 Yes, but luckily, we are all just sitting at a computer playing a video game and the issue of consent has been resolved years ago: > **[8 Golden Rules for EVE Online - EVE New Citizens Q&A - EVE Online Forums](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/topic/491023/)** > > EVE allows you to discover, explore and dominate an amazing science fiction universe while you fight, trade, form corporations and alliances with other players. Consent to PvP - You consent to PvP when you click “undock”. - You are not safe in 1.0 security space. [CONCORD](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203208902-CONCORD) is there to punish, not to protect. Get used to the idea. - In most cases, the only way to be 100% safe from aggression inside the game is to be docked in a station. Being cloaked in a secret safespot could work too. So consent is fine in EVE. It’s just a bunch of made up stuff being shot. Nothing of value is lost. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/age-of-consent/228636.md?page=4)