# Ai and a middle ground **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [October 16, 2026, 7:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295 "2026-10-16T07:23:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Michael\_Zeha\_Kadeyooh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/michael_zeha_kadeyooh/32/514987_2.png) [@Michael\_Zeha\_Kadeyooh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Michael_Zeha_Kadeyooh)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 7:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/1 "2026-10-16T07:23:33Z")
I’d like to suggest a new, opt-in clone system: an Authorized Infomorph Proxy. It would let a capsuleer train a shallow copy of themselves that can undock for a short, skill-gated window, with its own skill queue, not a copy of the character’s full SP. The goal is limited autonomy that still feels like EVE: you pay training time, you take risk, and you never get a second you running 23 hours a day. The idea in one paragraph A proxy clone is a licensed, weaker infomorph. Runtime is earned on a skill: each level grants 1 hour of proxy session time per downtime. The proxy trains its own skills the same way a character does (queue, ranks, prerequisites). It can do simple, constrained work (haul, mine, ratting under strict rules, station chores). It cannot replace the player in PvP, capitals, or anything that should require a human in the pod. Why it fits EVE Clones are already bodies and backups (jump clones, medical clones, Alpha/Omega). This would be a third kind: a short-lived working copy with a battery and a thinner skill map. Lore-wise it is an authorized fragment of the capsuleer’s infomorph, not a bot and not a second account. Core rule: runtime New character skill (on the player, not the proxy) Infomorph Proxy Authorization Rank: 3 Primary / secondary: Intelligence / Memory Prerequisites: Infomorph Psychology I, Science III Authorizes a licensed infomorph proxy and extends its legal operating window. Level Effect SP (rank 3) I Unlock proxy. 1 hour runtime per downtime 750 II 2 hours 4,243 III 3 hours 24,000 IV 4 hours 135,765 V 5 hours 768,000 Runtime does not stack or roll over. Unused time is lost at downtime. Starting a proxy session spends from that day’s pool. Docking pauses the clock; dying, jumping clone, or logging the character off ends the session. Infomorph Proxy Endurance Rank: 5 Prerequisites: Infomorph Proxy Authorization IV Optional later skill if you want more stingy extra time: +15 minutes per level (max +1h15 at V), still capped so a fully trained player is around 6 hours, not a second shift. How the proxy trains (same as a character, smaller tree) The proxy has its own character sheet and one skill queue. It does not inherit the capsuleer’s SP, certificates, or combat implants. Proxy skills only affect the proxy while it is the active session. The player can set the proxy queue while docked / in station, even if the proxy is not running. Proxy training continues whether or not the proxy is undocked (same as a character in station). Remaps: none, or one slow remap on a long timer, so people don’t min-max it like a main. Suggested training speed: same formula as a character, but no cerebral accelerators, no +5s. Keep it slow on purpose. Proposed proxy skill tree Group these under a new category: Infomorph Proxy. 1. Foundation Proxy Neural Stability Rank: 1 Prereq: (granted when Authorization I is trained) Basic coherence of the proxy infomorph. Required for all other proxy skills. Level Effect SP I–V Required gate; V required for any proxy skill V 250 / 1,414 / 8,000 / 45,255 / 256,000 Proxy Ship Command Rank: 2 Prereq: Proxy Neural Stability II Which hull classes the proxy may undock in. I: Frigates, haulers (industrial), mining frigates II: Destroyers, mining barges III: Cruisers, T1 only IV: Battlecruisers, T1 only V: Battleships, T1 only — never T2/T3, navy faction optional later, never capitals, supers, FAX, or bosons SP (rank 2): 500 / 2,828 / 16,000 / 90,510 / 512,000 Proxy Core Fitting Rank: 2 Prereq: Proxy Neural Stability II Each level: +1 low/mid/high “complexity” toward a simple fitting budget, or simply CPU/PG +5% per level on the proxy only, capped so it cannot fly player-maxed PvP fits. 2. Navigation (the clone has to be able to move without being a threat) Proxy Warp Discipline Rank: 2 Prereq: Proxy Neural Stability I I–V: standard warp-speed / spool behaviour for autopilot-quality warps; V required to use autopilot across more than a few jumps. Proxy Alignment Protocols Rank: 1 Prereq: Proxy Warp Discipline I I–V: improved align-to-warp reliability (reduces “stuck on grid” failures). No bonus to ship agility beyond a small, proxy-only align helper. Proxy Route Stewardship Rank: 3 Prereq: Proxy Warp Discipline III I: High-sec autopilot only, gates only II: Prefer higher-security routes III: May take player-set bookmarks / a saved route IV: Low-sec only if Emergency Eject IV V: Null not included, or null only in space the player has docked in recently (very conservative) 3. Safety (this is the skill that makes it “EVE” instead of a bot) Proxy Threat Assessment Rank: 3 Prereq: Proxy Neural Stability III I: Warp out if a player ship lands on grid II: Warp out if local increases by N, or if a suspect/criminal appears III: Ignore other players’ drones/wrecks; never loot player wrecks IV: Dock immediately if a war target / kill-right is in local V: Session ends and clone docks or self-destructs to station if it cannot leave grid Emergency Eject Rank: 4 Prereq: Proxy Threat Assessment II I: Warp to station at 50% armor II: 70% armor III: 90% shield IV: Any player targeting V: Any decloak / combat probe on grid (best-effort) A proxy that ignores these rules is a ToS problem. The skill should make cowardice mandatory. Proxy Non-Aggression Interlock Rank: 1 Prereq: Proxy Neural Stability I Locked at I for everyone: the proxy cannot aggress a player capsuleer. No suspect flag from shooting players, no EWAR on players, no bumping as a tactic. Shooting NPCs is allowed only if the relevant industry/PVE skill is trained. 4. Industry and logistics (the useful, boring work) Proxy Mining Cycles Rank: 3 Prereq: Proxy Ship Command I, Proxy Threat Assessment I I: High-sec belts, strip/miner as fitted, dock when ore hold full II: Player-set asteroid type priority III: Ice (high-sec only) IV: Anomaly mining sites in high-sec V: May use mining barges/exhumers only if the player character already has the matching hull skill — proxy still needs Proxy Ship Command. Prevents a 1-day clone from flying a Hulk the main never trained. Proxy Hauling Rank: 2 Prereq: Proxy Ship Command I I: Station-to-station in high-sec, player-defined cargo II: Multiple waypoints III: Player-owned structures in high-sec IV: Contracts the player has already accepted (courier), high-sec only, collateral still on the player V: Slightly longer routes; still no null pipeline Proxy Station Logistics Rank: 1 Prereq: Proxy Neural Stability I Repackage, move to hangar, refill charges/ore hold, repair to a player-set isk cap. No asset safety abuse, no market dumping of the entire hangar. 5. PVE (optional, tightly capped) Proxy PVE Patterns Rank: 4 Prereq: Proxy Ship Command II, Proxy Threat Assessment III, Proxy Non-Aggression Interlock I I: High-sec combat anomalies, T1 cruisers and below II: Better target priority (e-war NPCs first) III: Salvage own wrecks only IV: Low-sec PVE off by default; only if you really want it, and still warp-out-on-player V: Still no incursions, no abyssal, no C5, no pirate FOB command, nothing that prints wealth like a second main If this is too hot politically, ship the feature without PVE and only add it later. 6. Market (very limited) Proxy Order Stewardship Rank: 5 Prereq: Proxy Station Logistics III, Trade IV on the player I: Update existing orders in the current station only II: Relist at a player-set % of regional III: Buy orders for a small, player-capped isk budget IV: Multi-station in the same system V: Still no region-wide sniping, no instant market PvP The proxy should be a clerk, not a trading bot. Example total cost (player + a “useful hauler/miner proxy”) Rough SP a player invests on their character: Infomorph Proxy Authorization V ≈ 768,000 SP (optional) Endurance V ≈ extra rank-5 skill ≈ 1,280,000 SP Rough SP on the proxy for a high-sec miner/hauler (Neural Stability V, Ship Command II, Warp III, Threat III, Emergency III, Mining III, Hauling III): on the order of 1–2 million proxy SP, trained over weeks on a slow queue. That is the point: you upgrade the clone like a character, and a new proxy is bad at its job. Design limits (please keep these) Metered time. 1 hour per Authorization level per downtime. No rollover. Own skill queue. Never copies the main’s 50M+ SP. No player PvP. Interlock is not optional. No capitals / T3 / supers / FAX. Loss is real. Gank the proxy, pod it, the clone contract / jump clone rules you already use should apply. Insurance, killmails, and Concord in high-sec behave as they do for a player. The human is still responsible. One proxy session per account (or per character), not per window. No farm of five clones. Visible in space. Other players can see it is a proxy (UI mark, different overview icon, or “proxy” in the show-info). Hiding it would feel like botting. Omega-only is your call. If Alphas get it, give them Authorization I only (1 hour, mining frig / hauler). That keeps the upgrade treadmill on subscribers without creating a free ISK printer. What this is not It is not a license to bot. A 5-hour cowardly hauler with its own 2M SP is a trained clone with a battery. A silent 23/7 miner with the main’s skills is still against the spirit of the game. The skill system is how you make that distinction readable to players. Ask If this is even slightly interesting, a design pass on: whether runtime is per downtime or a slow recharge whether PVE ships in the first version how killmails and war decs treat a proxy …would be enough. I would rather have a stingy, lore-heavy clone than a powerful one. Thank you for reading ---
**Author:** ![Loki\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loki_yamaguchi/32/495255_2.png) [@Loki\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loki_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 8:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/2 "2026-10-16T08:34:19Z")
Good lord…why are you playing a game you don’t even want to be playing? I’m all for hiring NPC ships for tasks but that’s to help me while I do something in game. You don’t even want to be in game! Seriously why even play? Bizarre ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Zeha\_Kadeyooh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/michael_zeha_kadeyooh/32/514987_2.png) [@Michael\_Zeha\_Kadeyooh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Michael_Zeha_Kadeyooh)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 9:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/3 "2026-10-16T09:11:27Z")
> [@Loki\_Yamaguchi](#): > > That’s the opposite of what I’m asking for. > > I’m in game. I want a second set of hands while I’m here — barge on the rock while I sit the hauler, or I mine and it hauls. One skill level, one hour. Then it clocks out. I’m not trying to go to bed and wake up richer. > > You said you’re all for hiring NPC ships for tasks that help you while you do something in game. That’s the whole idea. Timed helper on-grid with the player, not a bot that plays EVE instead of you. > > If it can run 24/7 and print ISK while you sleep, I don’t want it either. That’s why the hours are the skill. That’s the opposite of what I’m asking for. I’m in game. I want a second set of hands while I’m here — barge on the rock while I sit the hauler, or I mine and it hauls. One skill level, one hour. Then it clocks out. I’m not trying to go to bed and wake up richer. You said you’re all for hiring NPC ships for tasks that help you while you do something in game. That’s the whole idea. Timed helper on-grid with the player, not a bot that plays EVE instead of you. If it can run 24/7 and print ISK while you sleep, I don’t want it either. That’s why the hours are the skill. ---
**Author:** ![Anna\_Dyneaux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anna_dyneaux/32/510758_2.png) [@Anna\_Dyneaux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anna_Dyneaux)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 10:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/4 "2026-10-16T10:49:06Z")
Adding developer-backed botting is a sure sign an MMO was either developed in South Korea, or is on its deathbed. No thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Loki\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loki_yamaguchi/32/495255_2.png) [@Loki\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loki_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 11:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/5 "2026-10-16T11:41:56Z")
> [@Michael\_Zeha\_Kadeyooh](#): > > I’m in game. I want a second set of hands while I’m here That’s called multiboxing and it’s been around since day one. What I want is just hired combat help of NPC. No skills or earning ISK for me, just firepower. I’ve MB’ed 5 accounts and it’s not fun for long…I’m too old to do that anymore so… ---
**Author:** ![Loki\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loki_yamaguchi/32/495255_2.png) [@Loki\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loki_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/6 "2026-10-16T11:43:20Z")
We all know botting is already here and also that a blind eye is turned to it. Can you think of any PVE window that could be opened (as that’s what a lot of players do) with player-hired NPCs? Maybe have any ‘hired guns’ blinky? I know that I’m a heretic for even suggesting it but as a solo player it either join a corp, MB or stay tiny. Kinda getting bored of just those options TBH. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Rochard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/john_rochard/32/373864_2.png) [@John\_Rochard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/John_Rochard)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/7 "2026-10-16T12:52:56Z")
I am not a fan of multibox or botting games. My friend has said, _FC should put such bots in the store to generate more revenues from omegas that already own multiple accounts. They charge a few bucks more for you to train multiple clones, so why not sell bots as well?_ **I strongly disagree,** this makes the game unfriendly and might as well be shooting at the NPCs instead of the other players. Other than database access, why even bother to have the game online at that point? It could be run from your home PC without any player interaction. Fly safe o7 ---
**Author:** ![Loki\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loki_yamaguchi/32/495255_2.png) [@Loki\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loki_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/8 "2026-10-16T13:14:53Z")
> [@John\_Rochard](#): > > might as well be shooting at the NPCs instead of the other players I do hear this is already a bit of a core gameplay loop here…missions, sites, bounties, deadspace, etc. I don’t know the exact # but that faucet is probably well above 50% of the income generated, IMO over the last 10 years, Eve has been more and more a single-player PVE experience in an MMO. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfgang\_Jannesen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wolfgang_jannesen/32/496726_2.png) [@Wolfgang\_Jannesen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wolfgang_Jannesen)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/9 "2026-10-16T15:38:03Z")
No thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Namdor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/namdor/32/396179_2.png) [@Namdor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Namdor)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/10 "2026-10-16T15:38:55Z")
💩👎 ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/11 "2026-10-16T16:51:31Z")
God, no. AI slop is a bane and has no place in EVE. It’s bad enough that this guy Hilmar is selling CCP out to AI slop. ---
**Author:** ![Drosera\_Binata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drosera_binata/32/514743_2.png) [@Drosera\_Binata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drosera_Binata)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 4:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/12 "2026-10-16T16:57:37Z")
> [@Loki\_Yamaguchi](#): > > hired combat help of NPC i dont think that should be allowed, think of how gankers would take advantage of it ---
**Author:** ![Loki\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loki_yamaguchi/32/495255_2.png) [@Loki\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loki_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/13 "2026-10-16T21:16:51Z")
The counter would be that hired NPC would not do anything to go criminal or help their employers if they go criminal/suspect. They would also not be hierable by anyone less that -2.0 ---
**Author:** ![Loki\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loki_yamaguchi/32/495255_2.png) [@Loki\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loki_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/14 "2026-10-16T21:19:17Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > AI slop is a bane and has no place in EVE Literally the main income streams are “AI slop”… ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Lord\_Trump](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_lord_trump/32/411482_2.png) [@Dark\_Lord\_Trump](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Lord_Trump)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 2:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/15 "2026-10-17T02:36:38Z")
No bots allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Loki\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loki_yamaguchi/32/495255_2.png) [@Loki\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loki_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 6:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/16 "2026-10-17T06:57:59Z")
NPC **≠ bot** ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Zeha\_Kadeyooh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/michael_zeha_kadeyooh/32/514987_2.png) [@Michael\_Zeha\_Kadeyooh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Michael_Zeha_Kadeyooh)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 8:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/17 "2026-10-17T08:19:48Z")
iThe helper isn’t a second me and it isn’t a store bot. It’s an NPC on a contract, same kind of thing as the NPC corp already mining a belt. You train roles (miner, protector, scout, hacker, later WH scout). You only get the jobs you’ve skilled for. You buy the time on a skill: 1 level, 1 hour. You write the contract: go here, do this. If the hour isn’t enough for the full trip, it doesn’t keep flying. It auto-docks and you lose the rest of the way home. Halfway back is halfway back. That’s the point. It helps while I’m in space. It does not work the night shift ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Zeha\_Kadeyooh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/michael_zeha_kadeyooh/32/514987_2.png) [@Michael\_Zeha\_Kadeyooh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Michael_Zeha_Kadeyooh)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 8:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/18 "2026-10-17T08:23:32Z")
Correction on hacking: the clone does not run relic/data cans. That’s the fun. At those sites it’s a bodyguard — watch, d-scan, warp-out. I still do the hack. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Lord\_Trump](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_lord_trump/32/411482_2.png) [@Dark\_Lord\_Trump](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Lord_Trump)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ai-and-a-middle-ground/520295/19 "2026-10-17T21:25:46Z")
> [@Michael\_Zeha\_Kadeyooh](#): > > It’s an NPC on a contract, same kind of thing as the NPC corp already mining a belt. That’s absolutely a bot. An automated character that does stuff for you is indistinguishable from a bot.