# Alliance proxy wars? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 31, 2019, 12:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alliance-proxy-wars/209187 "2019-12-31T00:35:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 12:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alliance-proxy-wars/209187/1 "2019-12-31T00:35:43Z")
Do alliances use proxies to attack each other? If so what’s the nature of it? Is there such a thing as low intensity warfare among the alliances that do not escalate too much? Similar to real proxy wars? ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 12:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alliance-proxy-wars/209187/2 "2019-12-31T00:40:20Z")
Define “proxy” please. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 12:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alliance-proxy-wars/209187/3 "2019-12-31T00:47:35Z")
At first I was going to make it geographic. But really it can probably be any 3rd party whose affiliation may be unknowable, or in question or unrelated. Such as a corp who attacks one alliance because they operate geographically out of that alliance’s area. But maybe that corp is backed by a competing alliance? The backer would want to stay hidden? The victim would want to wipe out or secure this 3rd party into their own sphere. And the game doesnt really allow for enforcement of agreed upon rules so who is to say what the 3rd party would end up doing or why? And lastly, being known to be affiliated with a competitor might simply be too costly to alliance diplomacy? I halfway lean to the idea the risks are too great because information leaks are too easy and so theres probably a lack of hidden proxies The “proxies” are probably well known as to whose camps they are in. And would probably be pressured to adhere to the same rules or be cut off entirely? ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 12:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alliance-proxy-wars/209187/4 "2019-12-31T00:52:30Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > The backer would want to stay hidden? This almost never happens in EVE Online. > [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > The victim would want to wipe out or secure this 3rd party into their own sphere. Also doesn’t really happen. Alliances in nullsec are more apt to simply set Non-Aggression or Non-Invasion Pacts (NAPs / NIPs) that allows each other to occasionally roam and shoot in each other’s space, but prevents any actual Sov warfare (like starting Timers or Attacking Ihubs and TCUs). > [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > And lastly, being known to be affiliated with a competitor might simply be too costly to alliance diplomacy? Again, doesn’t really happen. Most of null knows where everyone stands. Those that people don’t know aren’t relevant to the equation to bother about. > [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > The “proxies” are probably well known as to whose camps they are in. And would probably be pressured to adhere to the same rules or be cut off entirely? What actually happens in EVE is that corporations and alliances become “pets” of major nullblocs. These pets are just smaller allies that everyone already knows have ties to a certain nullbloc or another. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 12:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alliance-proxy-wars/209187/5 "2019-12-31T00:56:07Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > These pets are just smaller allies that everyone already knows have ties to a certain nullbloc or another. This makes sense. Is there a way to break this norm? Or is it pretty much impossible given limitations games have that real world doesnt in enforcing information control. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alliance-proxy-wars/209187/6 "2019-12-31T00:58:01Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > Is there a way to break this norm? You’d be asking for someone to come up with a way to change human nature. So no. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 1:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alliance-proxy-wars/209187/7 "2019-12-31T01:01:09Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > You’d be asking for someone to come up with a way to change human nature. So no Well in real world human nature is suppressed by force. Games down allow for that very well…hence suicide ganking…etc. So I tend to agree with you. But I still like to think there’s a creative method somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 3:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alliance-proxy-wars/209187/8 "2019-12-31T15:50:55Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > But I still like to think there’s a creative method somewhere. Does it include Orca’s? ---
**Author:** ![Xuxe\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuxe_xu/32/464660_2.png) [@Xuxe\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuxe_Xu)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alliance-proxy-wars/209187/9 "2019-12-31T16:17:23Z")
I want to get paid per number of forum posts I start too! Seems like a pretty sweet gig! How do I do that, OP? ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alliance-proxy-wars/209187/10 "2019-12-31T16:43:30Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > Is there a way to break this norm? What we are seeing as the norm is more the “final result”, with nothing really changing things have stagnated. The main problem is contrary to popular belief null is full when it comes to sov. The borders are well known and established. They could break the stagnation by adding new systems or changing travel to make distance have more meaning thus reducing umbrella range. But almost everyone looks at the map, sees the blue donut and closes their brain. ---
**Author:** ![Dravick\_Afterthought](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dravick_afterthought/32/282017_2.png) [@Dravick\_Afterthought](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dravick_Afterthought)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alliance-proxy-wars/209187/11 "2019-12-31T18:34:56Z")
Or shuffle all the gates to connect to different systems. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alliance-proxy-wars/209187/12 "2019-12-31T19:19:41Z")
I’ve always thought that it would have been cool to have to build your own gate maps. That would be the time! ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Steak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ms_steak/32/168834_2.png) [@Ms\_Steak](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ms_Steak)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 6:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alliance-proxy-wars/209187/13 "2020-01-01T06:16:28Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > But almost everyone **looks at the map** , sees the blue donut and closes their brain. [https://www.verite.space/maps/influence/influence.png](https://www.verite.space/maps/influence/influence.png) (note: map is automagically updated every day or so) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 6:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alliance-proxy-wars/209187/14 "2020-03-31T06:16:41Z")
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