# Alpha changes (enforced HS green safety) **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [November 5, 2022, 10:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172 "2022-11-05T22:24:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 1:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/336 "2023-01-06T01:28:47Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > If I tell you that everything I say is a lie, am I a liar? Yes. Because you used the absolute _everything_ in that statement. Which is not possible. So the fact that you told a lie, trying to lie made it a kind of “double lie” but inadvertently. But still a lie all the same. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/337 "2023-01-06T12:20:42Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > Yes. Because you used the absolute _everything_ in that statement ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/8/c/f/8cf2f15a87ef5c39279d86a37c6bd83e0a91de76.webp) ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 6:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/339 "2023-01-07T18:34:29Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > you used the absolute _everything_ in that statement. Which is not possible. S I’m able to tell a lie, and the truth, at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 6:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/340 "2023-01-07T18:49:11Z")
That’s because you have magical princess powers! ---
**Author:** ![Most\_Moliko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/most_moliko/32/378698_2.png) [@Most\_Moliko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Most_Moliko)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/341 "2023-01-07T20:00:45Z")
Love these changes, absolutely brilliant, now to put an end to high sec wars that greefs newly forming rookie corps just getting into structure ownership. SRS, should not be getting easy kills with NO RISK. Make non-consensual wars so they accumulate negative standing, limit how many automatic wins you give to SRS. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2023, 12:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/342 "2023-01-09T12:02:23Z")
> [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > Love these changes, absolutely brilliant, now to put an end to high sec wars that greefs newly forming rookie corps just getting into structure ownership. SRS, should not be getting easy kills with NO RISK. Make non-consensual wars so they accumulate negative standing, limit how many automatic wins you give to SRS. You do yet your view is not helping by labeling structure gankers as sociopaths or how you label it as anti social garbage. Think - plan - action - do ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 3:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/343 "2023-01-15T15:12:19Z")
> [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > now to put an end to high sec wars that greefs newly forming rookie corps just getting into structure ownership. One of my alts was in a 300 man corp that had no player owned stations, yet was expanding and doing well. So why does some 5 man corp need a player station ? And why should a structure be treated any differently to you leaving a battleship sitting there in space ? Personally I would not put up a structure until I knew I had the resources to defend it, or could call in mercenaries or others to help. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/344 "2023-01-15T17:14:30Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > So why does some 5 man corp need a player station ? Because a definitive expert who _doesn’t_ play EvE said so. All the \< 50 man corps that are prospering without a player owned structure are just a figment of your imagination. It would be a lot easier if you accepted the gaslighting and get in line with the _truth._ ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 6:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/345 "2023-01-15T18:07:51Z")
Maybe that expert is actually playing on an industry alt that produces structures or structure components and this is just a scheme to increase profits. 🙃 ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/346 "2023-01-15T18:15:59Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > So why does some 5 man corp need a player statio It’s not about “need”. Noone has suggested they can’t exist without a citadel. But in a sandbox it’s a way to create something that small groups can rally around. Being forced to join a massive blob to own a citadel just creates the same broken dynamic that has consistently damaged the game over the years. Why are you so adamant that only giant groups should be able to have anything of value in this game? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 8:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/347 "2023-01-15T20:10:18Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Why are you so adamant that only giant groups should be able to have anything of value in this game? Why do you keep inserting straw men that I’ve never actually said ? ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/348 "2023-01-15T20:33:58Z")
That’s the result of what you’ve said. You’re arguing in favour of an NPC-based mechanic that artificially adds value to citadels in order to make them attractive targets. All that does is guarantee that smaller groups will never be able to hold citadels and that only larger groups will be able to. Before that mechanic were put in, everyone could put up a citadel, and sure, they’d still have to defend it if it were attacked, but it had no artificial value incentivizing massive wardec groups to take it down. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/349 "2023-01-15T20:41:37Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > That’s the result of what you’ve said. No it isn’t. Stop inventing what other people are saying. If you are going to say that I said something then directly quote what I have said…which is what honest people do…not some BS you just made up. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/350 "2023-01-15T20:42:39Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > All that does is guarantee that smaller groups will never be able to hold citadels and that only larger groups will be able to. Did you see that @Altara_Zemara. It’s a guarantee! 100% without error. It will happen! It must happen! And without any evidence to! That’s a better guarantee than any you will get from a used car dealer! ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 8:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/351 "2023-01-15T20:54:42Z")
That’s the result of what you’ve said. See my above post. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/352 "2023-01-15T20:58:55Z")
Nonsense. Stop inventing what others are saying. Or are you now so far into making stuff up that you know what I am saying better than I do ? ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 9:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/353 "2023-01-15T21:00:17Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > it’s a way to create something that small groups can rally around. Seems like a good idea. So why don’t the small groups rally around it when they are attacked? ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/354 "2023-01-15T21:01:39Z")
I’m not inventing what you are saying. I’m pointing out the result of what you are saying. If you support NPC-based mechanics to artificially inflate the reward of taking down a structure then you encourage large groups to destroy the easiest targets to maximize rewards. Before cores, the value for taking down a structure was based on the activities of the group that owned the structure. When cores were introduced, they added a PvE reward to structures and so wardec groups now farm citadels owned by small groups that are unable to defend them. You only support that mechanic because you are on the side that farms them and you’re risk averse. > [@Xeux](#): > > Seems like a good idea. So why don’t the small groups rally around it when they are attacked? Most small groups simply can’t form the amount of defense it would take to fend off these wardec groups, a lot of which are null-backed. So realistically the small groups have to merge into larger groups to stand a chance of holding structures. I’m opposed to the game being big blobs vs other big blobs by design. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/355 "2023-01-15T21:20:35Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Before that mechanic were put in, everyone could put up a citadel, and sure, they’d still have to defend it if it were attacked, but it had no artificial value incentivizing massive wardec groups to take it down. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Before cores, the value for taking down a structure was based on the activities of the group that owned the structure. When cores were introduced, they added a PvE reward to structures and so wardec groups now farm citadels owned by small groups that are unable to defend them. I think these are fair points. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 9:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/356 "2023-01-15T21:46:07Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > I’m not inventing what you are saying. I’m pointing out the result of what you are saying. If you support NPC-based mechanics to artificially inflate the reward of taking down a structure then you encourage large groups to destroy the easiest targets to maximize rewards. > > Before cores, the value for taking down a structure was based on the activities of the group that owned the structure. When cores were introduced, they added a PvE reward to structures and so wardec groups now farm citadels owned by small groups that are unable to defend them. You only support that mechanic because you are on the side that farms them and you’re risk averse. That’s nothing to do with what I said. That’s you completely bulldozing what I said and substituting some other narrative…_as you keep on doing_. What I _did_ say…and which you completely rode over…was " So why does some 5 man corp need a player station ? " Arguing that its ‘not about need’ is just you once again trying to bulldoze what everything is ‘about’. Your usual tactic…whenever challenged you simply decide things are not ‘about’ whatever you’ve been challenged with. This sort of dishonest arguing is just tiresome. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172.md?page=16) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172.md?page=18)