# Alpha changes (enforced HS green safety) **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [November 5, 2022, 10:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172 "2022-11-05T22:24:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/357 "2023-01-15T21:57:47Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > Did you see that @Altara_Zemara. It’s a guarantee! 100% without error. It will happen! It must happen! And without any evidence to! Of course. With God-like powers of knowing what everyone else is thinking, their motives, their actions, even knowing what they really meant by what they were saying…what do you expect ? ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 10:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/358 "2023-01-15T22:07:36Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > That’s nothing to do with what I said. That’s you completely bulldozing what I said and substituting some other narrative…_as you keep on doing_. If you want to play that game, then what you said had nothing to do with what I said either. Because at no point did I ever say that small groups “need” citadels, yet that’s the strawman you attacked. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > This sort of dishonest arguing is just tiresome. Then stop being so dishonest. Try having a discussion like an adult, without misrepresentations, outrage and vitriol. I’ve made my point perfectly clearly multiple times and you’ve ignored it every single time to either accuse me of making stuff up or misrepresent me. Address what I’ve actually said. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 10:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/359 "2023-01-15T22:15:59Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > I think these are fair points. Not really. Why would a 3-4bn ISK station _not_ drop some appreciable loot ? It would be absurd if what are some of the most expensive containers/items in the game dropped absolutely nothing. And why should the loot be related ( as before ) to the activity of the corp ? None of my battleships drop less loot if I am less active in them or I use them for some other purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 10:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/360 "2023-01-15T22:19:34Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Address what I’ve actually said. You were the one responding to _my_ post…and you did not address what I actually said. You keep doing this. Hijacking other people’s comments and demanding that people then address what _you_ say…while you ride roughshod over what _they_ have said. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > I’ve made my point perfectly clearly You’ve bulldozed it right over my point. Then you have the sheer gall to talk about dishonesty. The problem is that you want to have a specific rant and you’ve hijacked what I said in order to do so…even though _none_ of what I referred to had any of what you say in it. I specifically asked why a 5 man corp needs a station. I could not care less whether you go into silly semantics over ‘needs’, or ‘requires’, or ‘wants’. You have _not_ answered the specific question. ---
**Author:** ![Alena\_Burns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alena_burns/32/401065_2.png) [@Alena\_Burns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alena_Burns)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 10:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/361 "2023-01-15T22:24:34Z")
> [@Arya\_Yeshe](#): > > CCP didnt increase the amount of attribute points for compensating the sub raise Sorry for the necroposting, but I still see and hear more than once whining about the increase in subscription prices You’re a fool? What compensation? You also ask for compensation in the market, let’s say the meat has risen in price, why didn’t they compensate 200 grams of meat for the difference? ahh? Or at a gas station, maybe it’s worth topping up a 100ml for every liter? For compensation? Are you completely pissed or dumb??? Prices in the world are rising, why can’t the subscription for the game grow? 🤮 ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 10:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/362 "2023-01-15T22:32:24Z")
At this point the counter argument has been, for the last 100 posts or so, and distilled to its most simplest form: No. I’m right. You’re wrong. Stop posting. Stop challenging me. If you don’t agree with me, you’re a meany poopoo-head who deliberately derails things. But don’t you dare point out all the times I’ve tried to derail the conversation. You’re not supposed to notice that! ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 10:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/363 "2023-01-15T22:35:32Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > _not_ drop some appreciable loot It didn’t before and the change only hurt small corps more. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 10:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/364 "2023-01-15T22:37:57Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > You’ve bulldozed it right over my point. It’s not my fault if a light breeze knocks your point over. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Then you have the sheer gall to talk about dishonesty. Pot, kettle. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > I specifically asked why a 5 man corp needs a station. Right, but I never said they did need a station. Noone here did. That’s a strawman you are making up, so why would I answer that question? What I said is that having it so that only big groups who can form large defense fleets be able to own structures is in my opinion bad for the game. I think the reward for taking down a structure should be in line with the risk to take it down and the structures benefit to the owners (so broadly, the activity of the structure). So to be clear, I don’t think small corps need structures, but I think in a sandbox the game needs small groups to be able to build around _something_, and structures are a good thing to build around. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 10:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/365 "2023-01-15T22:39:03Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > It didn’t before and the change only hurt small corps more. Why wouldn’t it ? Of course a small corp is going to be more affected by any loss. But that’s no different to a small scale noob being more affected by losing a battlecruiser or something. Is there any area of Eve where loss _doesn’t_ disproportionally affect the newer and poorer people ? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/366 "2023-01-15T22:40:58Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Right, but I never said they did need a station. Noone here did. OK lets play your silly semantics game. If they don’t ‘need’ a station…why are they putting one up ? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 10:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/367 "2023-01-15T22:50:08Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > So to be clear, I don’t think small corps need structures, but I think in a sandbox the game needs small groups to be able to build around _something_, and structures are a good thing to build around. Um…that’s just saying they don’t need…and they do need. Small groups can set up offices in any NPC station. I know loads of smaller corps that do this. I even have a small corp myself ( yup…I myself have one ) and have it headquartered in a NPC station. I have another alt who has been in two separate 300 man corps, neither of which has any player station. So again I ask…why does a 5 man corp need a station, especially as all 5 are probably alts of one person. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 11:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/368 "2023-01-15T23:01:38Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > affected by any loss The point you avoid is there is now a target/incentive on the back of small corps that was not there before. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 11:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/369 "2023-01-15T23:12:37Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > If they don’t ‘need’ a station…why are they putting one up ? Becuase they want one. It’s a sandbox game, it’s reasonable to want to build something within that sandbox. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Um…that’s just saying they don’t need…and they do need. No it’s not. You’re being dishonest again. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Small groups can set up offices in any NPC station. Again, nothing to do with the point I was making. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > So again I ask…why does a 5 man corp need a station, especially as all 5 are probably alts of one person. I remind you again that at no point has anyone here said they do _need_ it, so answering your leading questions is pointless. I see you’re now adding in that they are “probably alts” which again is just you making stuff up. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 11:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/370 "2023-01-15T23:27:30Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Becuase they want one Why do they ‘want’ one if they don’t ‘need’ one ? Hey…I could get to enjoy the silly semantics game. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > it’s reasonable to want to build something within that sandbox. People can ‘want’ what they like. It is _not_ reasonable to plonk a station down if all you have is a 5 man corp that cannot hope to defend it. [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/0/40fbb78d02618ecc7e5ff7471a57d0a2ef57c498.jpeg "The Rolling Stones - You Can’t Always Get What You Want (Official Video) [4K]") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef9QnZVpVd8) ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 11:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/371 "2023-01-15T23:30:31Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > The point you avoid is there is now a target/incentive on the back of small corps that was not there before. Good. Don’t undock ( or plonk in space ) what you can’t afford to lose. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/372 "2023-01-15T23:35:44Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Why do they want one if they don’t ‘need’ one ? Why does anyone want anything they don’t need? This is a sandbox game people play to enjoy, building something as part of a close-knit group is fun. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > It is _not_ reasonable to plonk a station down if all you have is a 5 man corp that cannot hope to defend it. Why not? Again, before they put in the NPC bought and sold cores these groups could put down structures and there was little incentive for risk-averse wardec groups to farm them for income. They could build their little station for their little group and rally around it and have some fun. Sure, they could then get into fights with other groups and would lose structures through normal warfare, but they were not instantly targets. Then cores came along and suddenly they need to constantly be able to field a large defense to prevent themselves from being farmed. Again, you only defend it because you’re in one of the slimy risk-averse wardec corps. You are defending it because you want to protect your easy, low-risk income. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 11:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/373 "2023-01-15T23:41:58Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Why not? And why not blow it up ? It’s fun. I mean…I ‘want’ to ! ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 11:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/374 "2023-01-15T23:49:07Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > The point you avoid is there is now a target/incentive on the back of small corps that was not there before. What about all those 1 man holder corps? ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 11:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/375 "2023-01-15T23:50:32Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > what you can’t afford to lose. 🤣 We expect to lose it, just not in the 1st wk. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 11:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/376 "2023-01-15T23:51:35Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > What about all those 1 man holder corps? There you have me. CCP always over kills. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172.md?page=17) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172.md?page=19)