# Alpha changes (enforced HS green safety) **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [November 5, 2022, 10:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172 "2022-11-05T22:24:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![3CT0PLASM4](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/3ct0plasm4/32/435596_2.png) [@3CT0PLASM4](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/3CT0PLASM4)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/477 "2023-01-16T18:13:45Z")
Glad to see I was right. When facing the truth you can’t cope with it. Saddening but not surprising 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 6:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/478 "2023-01-16T18:20:51Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > and then expects you to provide “real” data to support your own counter to it to her hypocritical nonsense. Actually, there is a way anyone could obtain hard and fast data on the replacement rate of destroyed stations. But good luck to them spending days going round systems using scanners to look for new stations and comparing with what was destroyed in killboard. I await Elizabet’s findings on this ! ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 6:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/479 "2023-01-16T18:27:50Z")
True, but is it realistic for one person to go and talk to every station owner to collect the base number, and then continue to be in communication with them for years and collect all the losses and gains? Not really. It would take a dedicated team of people. Or, and the much more reliable method, CCP measuring those metrics in real time and then releasing them to the public. Which I don’t think they typically do. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 6:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/480 "2023-01-16T18:28:05Z")
You’re the one making the claim, so why would I fly around gathering data for you? Instead, I’m concluding that since you have no data and you’ve demonstrated limited understanding of quite a lot of mechanics that it’s more likely you’re just making it up. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/481 "2023-01-16T18:29:25Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > I await Elizabet’s findings on this ! You won’t. Remember the whole thing is hypothetical so they will fall back to “semantics,” and “not worth my time” because that’s how they set these arguments up. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 6:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/482 "2023-01-16T18:36:29Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Instead, I’m concluding Odd how the person who most says ‘so you’re saying that…’ is also the person who most says ’ that’s not what I said '. I’d _like_ to think we were all debating by the same standards. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 6:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/483 "2023-01-16T18:40:05Z")
I’m not sure I could stoop low enough to meet your standards… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 6:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/484 "2023-01-16T18:45:42Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > True, but is it realistic for one person to go and talk to every station owner to collect the base number, and then continue to be in communication with them for years and collect all the losses and gains? No, its a ‘simple’ matter of seeing what systems were visited in the past, and viewing what is there now. The problem being that I don’t know what activity other groups have been up to since. I am curious to know…so am going to go have a look at a few systems. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/485 "2023-01-16T18:46:33Z")
I’d agree with you…but then we’d both be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 6:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/486 "2023-01-16T18:49:41Z")
That’s making the wild assumption that people put citadels in the same systems every time and that old groups aren’t being replaced by new groups. You’d need to know across the game how many small groups were putting down citadels over time with data updated on a periodic basis, and no one but CCP will have that data. I don’t know if that number is up or down on the past, but neither do you so your previous claim is baseless. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 6:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/487 "2023-01-16T18:49:46Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > I am curious to know…so am going to go have a look at a few systems. Is a small sampling going to be enough to make a meaningful measure? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/488 "2023-01-16T19:08:06Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > Is a small sampling going to be enough to make a meaningful measure? I can expand it over time. I’m just fascinated to know if anything has sprung up at all. Well, the very first system I checked, we destroyed 6 Athanors in September, and guess how many are there now. 1. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 7:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/489 "2023-01-16T19:48:33Z")
For each graph : per month, according to MER, excluding NPC involed kills, one graph with lines and one graph with stacked values structure kills count in HS ![structureHSCountLine](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/4/4/d/44df9b08dbf32aadef3914965c8a365bafd34359.png) ![structureHSCountStacked](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/4/e/3/4e36e2035f530d269b327ca6efee5ff32fc7881f.png) structure kills value in HS ![structureHSValueLine](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/5/a/35a8f78cc7a043a749b85f2bd31be54d63316b4c.png) ![structureHSValueStacked](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/f/a/5/fa50c8c3f512af5cc385c914641f83d691aa4ade.png) structure kills count in LS ![structureLSCountLine](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/8/b/6/8b6ca22ddb064a1e17bb90a72143d0a7b87c974a.png) ![structureLSCountStacked](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/9/e/39e4e32e94bcac928b77a788c2889bfc8787ad4f.png) structure kills count in NS ![structureNSCountLine](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/2/c/8/2c879c2368136c07e58e0866c84b7e90d95442c4.png) ![structureNSCountStacked](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/e/d/5ed94d3fec5f7bc2e58701fb734f69d27c4bac46.png) structure kills count in WS ![structureWSCountLine](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/0/e/e/0ee437c72bb774fe93a1ed8a1540b6042ad1d1ac.png) ![structureWSCountStacked](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/8/7/d/87d7d29601443142e4074f9c77c9d699e22d9be2.png) ---
**Author:** ![Inaishite\_Teikei](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/inaishite_teikei/32/383275_2.png) [@Inaishite\_Teikei](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Inaishite_Teikei)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/490 "2023-01-16T21:59:25Z")
Destroying small corps’ structures is too little risk for too much reward to be allowed, but a beginner corp leaving billion isk structures undefended should be guarded from risk because that’s “good for the game”. Curious. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 11:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/491 "2023-01-16T23:12:54Z")
Don’t anchor what you can’t afford to loose. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/492 "2023-01-16T23:43:48Z")
Noone said they should be guarded from risk, their structures should be able to be attacked. The issue is on top of the risk to the billion isk structures CCP have added an NPC-driven financial incentive to target small corp structures. It’s that additional financial incentive that should not exist. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 12:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/493 "2023-01-17T00:47:44Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > You guys can’t have it both ways. Liz cant tell me in one breath that all we ever destroy is 5 man corp stations, which means there must by definition be _lots_ of them…while you insinuate in the next breath that they are some sort of endangered species. > > Which is it ? I can’t speak for Liz. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Liz cant tell me in one breath that all we ever destroy is 5 man corp stations, which means there must by definition be _lots_ of them An exaggeration possibly? > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Which is it ? You have no better numbers than I. > [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > Don’t anchor what you can’t afford to loose. That was fine till the extra target on the back. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 2:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/494 "2023-01-17T02:08:05Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > That was fine till the extra target on the back. I’m not sure what you mean here. 1st rule of EvE. Don’t fly what you can’t afford to loose. How is that any different for a player owned station? ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 2:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/495 "2023-01-17T02:09:06Z")
Cores… ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 2:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172/496 "2023-01-17T02:09:39Z")
And? It’s a loot drop. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172.md?page=23) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-changes-enforced-hs-green-safety/383172.md?page=25)