# Alpha clone faction re-balance, when? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625 "2017-06-21T23:13:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/21 "2017-06-22T15:33:25Z")
> [@Do\_Little](#): > > I think CCP could improve life for Amarr in general, not just Alphas, by giving Dragoon and Arbitrator universal hardpoints - same as Prophecy and Armageddon. That way you could use any or all of them for turrets, launchers or neuts. Yeah. I think the Amarr droneboats should all have universal high slots. ---
**Author:** ![Frostys\_Virpio](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/frostys_virpio/32/12703_2.png) [@Frostys\_Virpio](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Frostys_Virpio)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/22 "2017-06-22T15:37:38Z")
> [@Remiel\_Pollard](#): > > You’re right, PVE isn’t PVP. > > PVE is easy and most of what can be done with the ships, modules, and skills, available to alphas can also be done with a rookie ship. The PVE is not a reason for ‘rebalancing’. This is a PVP game. Balancing revolves entirely around PVP. If your argument for a rebalance involves PVE, you’ve already lost. It’s not like they JUST re balanced carriers and supers on PvE reasons right? ---
**Author:** ![Lienhart\_Cousland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lienhart_cousland/32/44289_2.png) [@Lienhart\_Cousland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lienhart_Cousland)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/23 "2017-06-22T15:44:16Z")
You can already split them; 50% guns and 50% missiles, or 50% neuts and 50% weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/24 "2017-06-22T15:52:12Z")
> [@Lienhart\_Cousland](#): > > You can already split them; 50% guns and 50% missiles, or 50% neuts and 50% weapons. Yeah, but on the Dragoon and Arbitrator have **split hardpoints** - for example x turrets and x launchers. They are _not_ universal high slots like on the Prophecy and Armageddon. ---
**Author:** ![Chance\_Ravinne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chance_ravinne/32/423798_2.png) [@Chance\_Ravinne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chance_Ravinne)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/25 "2017-06-22T15:55:44Z")
Don’t forget Gallente also gets a full selection of useful industrial ships. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/26 "2017-06-22T15:56:48Z")
> [@Chance\_Ravinne](#): > > Don’t forget Gallente also gets a full selection of useful industrial ships. I know right? What’s up with that? Favoritism? CCPlease! ---
**Author:** ![Lienhart\_Cousland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lienhart_cousland/32/44289_2.png) [@Lienhart\_Cousland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lienhart_Cousland)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/27 "2017-06-22T15:57:13Z")
Well they are EWAR ships, not a typical first choice for PVE (neut bonus on the destroyer, tracking disruption for the cruiser). ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/28 "2017-06-22T15:58:41Z")
> [@Lienhart\_Cousland](#): > > Well they are EWAR ships, not a typical first choice for PVE (neut bonus on the destroyer, tracking disruption for the cruiser). Okay, and? That has nothing to do with the fact that they have split guns, but the larger drone/ewar ships (Prophecy, Armageddon) don’t have split guns. ---
**Author:** ![Lienhart\_Cousland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lienhart_cousland/32/44289_2.png) [@Lienhart\_Cousland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lienhart_Cousland)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/29 "2017-06-22T16:00:56Z")
Considering their other bonus is drones you can infer that drones is their main weapon. As such, get some utility from those highs. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/30 "2017-06-22T16:02:26Z")
> [@Lienhart\_Cousland](#): > > Considering their other bonus is drones you can infer that drones is their main weapon. As such, get some utility from those highs. Or fit a full rack of rocket lau- oh wait you can’t, because split guns. I don’t think you understand what we’re actually talking about in this thread bro. ---
**Author:** ![Lienhart\_Cousland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lienhart_cousland/32/44289_2.png) [@Lienhart\_Cousland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lienhart_Cousland)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/31 "2017-06-22T16:14:35Z")
I thought we were on about Kynami’s point. Amarr droneboats double as EWAR ships so they don’t have full hardpoints. The Gallente droneboats are combat ships so they have more optimal hardpoints. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/32 "2017-06-22T16:23:49Z")
> [@Lienhart\_Cousland](#): > > Amarr droneboats double as EWAR ships so they don’t have full hardpoints. Do you know what “universal slots” and “split guns” means…? Let’s clear that up first before moving forward here. ---
**Author:** ![Cmdr\_Clawhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cmdr_clawhammer/32/13232_2.png) [@Cmdr\_Clawhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cmdr_Clawhammer)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/33 "2017-06-22T17:43:22Z")
The main reason why i would say always gallente for alpha chars are the industrial transport ships. Ore, PI, and two cargo transporter. What offer other factions? ---
**Author:** ![Lienhart\_Cousland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lienhart_cousland/32/44289_2.png) [@Lienhart\_Cousland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lienhart_Cousland)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/34 "2017-06-22T17:50:39Z")
Enlighten me. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/35 "2017-06-22T18:17:51Z")
> [@Lienhart\_Cousland](#): > > Do Alphas actually need balancing? they are, after all, just a trial mode. Yes, they do. For starters, Alpha clone status is designed to be more than just “trial mode”. But even if it was, you don’t want new players to feel screwed and uninstall in frustration, because they discover they’ve spent all that time investing in the handicapped faction. That’s just bad NPE. ---
**Author:** ![Kynami\_Vaille](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kynami_vaille/32/229160_2.png) [@Kynami\_Vaille](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kynami_Vaille)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/36 "2017-06-22T18:22:52Z")
Minmatar have the ammunition and charges hauler the Hoarder in addition to damage types served by changing ammunition because both missiles and projectile weapons have their damage type determined by ammo used. Also with how important cap can be in null warfare the fact their guns aren’t horribly dependent on it is a blessing, especially if you need to help structure bash. Caldari just have some stupidly strong ships in the cruiser class that excel in both PvE and PvP. Caracal, Moa, and Blackbird are all really good at what they do. And while they have better bonuses for kinetic damage, they in their missile systems can choose what damage type they are dealing. ---
**Author:** ![Lienhart\_Cousland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lienhart_cousland/32/44289_2.png) [@Lienhart\_Cousland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lienhart_Cousland)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/37 "2017-06-22T18:42:34Z")
I thought that was marketing spin. Every day is a schoolday! ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/38 "2017-06-22T19:25:27Z")
Alpha clone status has been meticulously designed (with input from CSM) to give you the full basic Eve experience. Not only for newbros but also specifically with vets in mind. Whether they want to lay low/play casual for a while or on the other hand, want to get their feet wet first after a break from the game. And besides these daring faction balance issues, it actually succeeds in that. There’s plenty of fun and full game to be had as an alpha. Still it won’t stop you from wanting to upgrade to Omega when you put more time in it. ---
**Author:** ![Chainsaw\_Plankton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chainsaw_plankton/32/256180_2.png) [@Chainsaw\_Plankton](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chainsaw_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/39 "2017-06-22T19:38:13Z")
> [@Kynami\_Vaille](#): > > PvP != PvE > > NPCs don’t give a flying fig about neuting. And newer players are more likely to be doing a lot more PvE than PvP initially. Yes PvP is a big focus of this game, but as it is a sandbox game it isn’t the only exclusive focus. no, but the combo of lasers + drones is a good mix of range and DPS and is pretty decent for low level pve where most npcs have low resists, and small HP pools, so damage type isn’t a problem like in lv4s where you have to chew through elite cruisers and a bunch of battleship npcs. Amarr looks really good on the gnosis where you can use heat sinks and DDAs to take advantage of the drone and gun bonuses on the hull. also low level pve probably isn’t giving many players to subscribe. having viable pvp boats and making some friends in game is likely resulting in more fun and more subs. here I was thinking minmatar was the worst alpha race. they get guns and missiles which compete for slots/damage mods, and their cruisers have decent drone bays but very little drone skills to help get the most out of the ships. I was thinking caldari and minmatar could use a bit more drone skills, amarr could use some more missile skills, and not sure what changes I’d make to gallente, haven’t looked too far into them, and they seem pretty popular anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Chainsaw\_Plankton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chainsaw_plankton/32/256180_2.png) [@Chainsaw\_Plankton](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chainsaw_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625/40 "2017-06-22T20:52:09Z")
> [@Remiel\_Pollard](#): > > Um, dude, the Dragoon and Arbitrator are neut ships, and incredibly potent ones at that. The high slots aren’t split at all. Put neut/nos in them and drain your enemies of capacitor, use drones as exclusive DPS. They are, in fact, a direct counter to Gallente ships, especially those that use active armour tanks. I’ll bet anyone I can teach a newb in a Dragoon to neut and kill anyone in an active-armour Hecate in the same amount of time it takes to get the skills to fly it. I really want to love the dragoon, but the slow speed and 2 mids are pretty big downsides imo. That said it seems like it would be a great ship to have in a roaming gang to help shut other players down. And the drone velocity bonus should be good for chasing down frigs. > [@Kynami\_Vaille](#): > > Considering that you can knock out at least two L3s in the same time frame as one L4 with Alpha restrictions heck you could probably do more than 2. [quote=“Remiel\_Pollard, post:15, topic:5625”] The PVE is not a reason for ‘rebalancing’. This is a PVP game. Balancing revolves entirely around PVP. If your argument for a rebalance involves PVE, you’ve already lost. [/quote] I’d about 90% agree with that, but when obvious pve problems show up sometimes it makes sense to do some balancing there.[quote=“Lord\_Rolfski, post:35, topic:5625”] Yes, they do. For starters, Alpha clone status is designed to be more than just “trial mode”. But even if it was, you don’t want new players to feel screwed and uninstall in frustration, because they discover they’ve spent all that time investing in the handicapped faction. That’s just bad NPE. [/quote] sure it is more, but extended trial is a very concise way to state what it is reasonably accurate. Also I don’t consider any of the factions handicapped at this point. A few tweaks would be nice but overall they should be pretty minor. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-faction-re-balance-when/5625.md?page=3)