# Alpha clone suicide ganking - plague of EVE **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 18, 2022, 9:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448 "2022-06-18T21:39:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 2:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/329 "2022-11-19T02:39:41Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Quite a lot. There’s a massive psychological difference between losing to an NPC controlled by game mechanics and being decimated by a veteran player who is destroying your ship purely as a form of griefing. Oh God what a load of cobblers. You have just _invented_ some ‘massive psychological difference’ out of the blue. No evidence whatever. How convenient. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You know there’s a difference too Nope. There isn’t. I’ve had one of my noob alt ships warp scrammed and blapped by NPCs…and it is no different at all to being ganked. Other than in your invented imaginary world of make believe ‘massive psychological difference blah blah…’ ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 2:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/330 "2022-11-19T02:49:55Z")
I was more mad losing my fav ish to the damn triangle faces than ever losing a ship to a player. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 3:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/332 "2022-11-19T03:02:38Z")
Actually in some ways it is _worse_ than being ganked…as it is all so cold and electronically efficient and there’s nobody to shout at or even say ‘good fight’ to. And…you don’t get a kill right if you escape. And if you run into a fleet of gankers and kill one, you get a record of it but you can kill 1000 NPCs and there is zero record of it at all. All of which actually makes NPCs far more psychologically annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 4:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/334 "2022-11-19T04:04:20Z")
I think [Redacted] is salty that I have them blocked. They are flagging posts again. Kek. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 4:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/335 "2022-11-19T04:10:28Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > All of which actually makes NPCs far more psychologically annoying. TBF, if one is allowing NPC’s to effect themselves psychologically in a negative way, they probably should not be playing that particular game. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 4:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/336 "2022-11-19T04:52:51Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > I think [Redacted] is salty that I have them blocked. They are flagging posts again. > > Kek. He also stole your word 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 5:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/337 "2022-11-19T05:37:23Z")
Which word was that? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 5:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/338 "2022-11-19T05:54:51Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I love the mental gymnastics you go through to try to justify griefing. The only griefing I see _at all_ is that done by you right here in these forums. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 6:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/339 "2022-11-19T06:09:58Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So then to be clear you think an NPC and a player are the same? Lol…the ridiculous twisted semantic lengths you try to go to in order to avoid the _plain fact_ that NPCs kill more noobs than gankers do. It is really quite laughable how you twist and squirm through every red herring, straw man, non sequitur, and diversionary tactic in the book in order to ignore a simple fact. But it is typical Lucas. Pretending to be ‘discussing’ things whilst actually responding in as dishonest a manner as possible. Honest ‘discussion’ involves acceptance of things that are facts. The clearest sign that someone is not discussing openly and honestly is when everyone can see that the facts are just being ignored, or evaded with silly semantics. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 7:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/340 "2022-11-19T07:47:32Z")
He’s using sockpuppets now LOL. ---
**Author:** ![x123xxx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/x123xxx/32/247890_2.png) [@x123xxx](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/x123xxx)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/342 "2022-11-19T13:21:49Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m disputing your further claim that NPCs killing new players has the same effect as veterans griefing new players. You’re 💯% correct here. There’s no comparison! NPCs aren’t capable of “griefing”. > A griefer derives pleasure primarily, or exclusively, from the act of annoying other users, and as such, is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities. * * * People will say just about anything to justify their way of thinking. That applies to both sides of an argument. Let’s all try to be more objective. * * * ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/343 "2022-11-19T13:45:01Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > In what way is it twisted. You are claiming that NPCs and players are the same. They aren’t If a new player cannot ‘bootstrap’ ( to use CCPs term ) back into the game after a gank…they **equally** cannot bootstrap back into the game after losing that exact same ship to an NPC. That is the point you keep evading. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > And honest discussion also requires those facts to be relevant. I’m not disputing that NPCs kill more new players, what I’m disputing is your further claim that NPCs killing new players has the same effect as veterans griefing new players. You have not explained why the effect would be any different. Why would the game itself having pre-coded malice towards you be _any_ different to a bunch of players doing the same ? When you are attacked by NPCs you have a bunch of devs attacking you. They sat there in a room and coded those NPCs to attack your noob Venture. What’s the difference ? There are still real live people as the ultimate cause of the interaction. You can _invent_ touchy-feely stuff that you claim exists…but until someone does an actual MRSI scan on a gankee and on an NPC victim, you have zero evidence that people ‘feel’ any different. You are just making stuff up…hardly a basis for altering an entire game. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 2:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/344 "2022-11-19T14:07:29Z")
If a player kills you, chances are the same player wont be there to do it again if you choose a different route. If you get killed say in a mission by an NPC, itll happen again and again until you either give up and quit or win. NPCs literally gate features so you HAVE to beat them or give up, players dont. Ergo, NPCs cause more players to quit by deduction than other players do. Exception: Null is gated by players and not NPCs, so if we are banning things for making people quit, ban Null Players. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/346 "2022-11-19T14:55:21Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Again though, that’s only one single part of what CCP were saying. The inability to bootstrap on it’s own is not the sole issue. You keep on with this ‘on its own’ nonsense…trying to expand the context. The fact is that the bootstrapping element was the core underlying matter. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I sure have, it’s psychological. Oh, you have a degree in psychology now. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > An NPC is part of the game mechanics and is not seeking to grief. An NPC is pre-coded ‘grief’. Just because something is automated does not mean someone is not ultimately behind it. Also, your very use of the word ‘grief’ constitutes a biased argument in the first place. When you ask ‘why is this grief allowed’…it pre-supposes that what goes on _is_ actually ‘grief’. So you are asking a loaded question there. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > and is why most MMOs don’t allow griefing but do allow strong monsters that can defeat players That is a dishonest point, as the ‘griefing’ most MMOs dont allow constitutes verbal abuse, harrassment, racial or sexual abuse…effectively the stuff that is clearly banned in the TOS of every online game in existence…even the ones where there is no shooting such as Second Life. So comparing the pretty standard TOS with the existence of strong monsters is just a complete non sequitur. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You know that if PvP players were only allowed to shoot NPCs, many would quit, so you know full well that players and NPCs are not the same, yet you keep claiming they are. An absurd point. PvP can contain a far greater degree of complexity than PvE. Non player AI is years away from being able to create the sort of complex interactions that even a handful of real players can generate. This is why many find PvE boring…not because many are inherently anti PvE. And the whole argument about whether PvP and PvE are ‘the same’ completely ( and deliberately ) misses the point that it is the _effect_ that is the same. If I lose my brand new 1 day old Venture to a solo ganker…in what conceivable sense is the effect any different to losing that exact same ship to an NPC ? I don’t lose the ship _more_ via the ganker ! The ship is gone. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/347 "2022-11-19T15:36:55Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > you have zero evidence that people ‘feel’ any different. I have him blocked and you should too, however he is right about this. But some players when killed by another player just cannot accept it no matter what. Instead of accepting they made a mistake (which would they do if it were NPCs), they keep finding excuses for themselves for why they were killed. - the other player was cheating - wasn’t fghting fair - had blinged ship/implants - had better ping - had help from other player Well anything, but to accept own mistake or other player’s higher skill or own failure. These players are those that are swarming forums/reddit with the ganking removal demands. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/349 "2022-11-19T16:01:25Z")
Lets get back on the thread’s topic. Now that alpha ganking is technically impossible has ganking changed dramatically, or even at all? ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/350 "2022-11-19T16:10:52Z")
I think we need to commission a study to answer that question. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/new_order_enforcer/32/387867_2.png) [@New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/New_Order_Enforcer)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/351 "2022-11-19T16:17:44Z")
I keep using my alpha ganking fleets. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/352 "2022-11-19T16:51:15Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Again, you’re only looking at the in-game material loss, not the impact on the actual player, the players enjoyment and the players time. Oh for God’s sake. I think I finally reached the point of having had _enough_ of your made up BS and your _pretence_ to know exactly how every player feels about everything. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The same goes for PvE. When a player wants to engage in PvE and they are forced by another player to engage in PvP that’s not an enjoyable experience. It’s what they frikin signed up for when they undocked ! What part of that are you too deluded to comprehend ? You are endlessly whining about something that is, and has been for years, the very _nature_ of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Zayisha\_Andara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zayisha_andara/32/249831_2.png) [@Zayisha\_Andara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zayisha_Andara)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/353 "2022-11-19T17:03:53Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Otherwise the equation is imbalanced. That is how it may look for you. But your equation is missing an important component! (Hint: there is a very important difference between Alpha and Omega Accounts) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448.md?page=15) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448.md?page=17)