# Alphas and Free to Play **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 5, 2025, 3:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046 "2025-02-05T15:40:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 6:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/141 "2025-02-08T18:56:58Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > the vast majority of Gloria’s posts is gas lighting, larping and nonsense. Nah…I think it is more ( as was demonstrated on another thread, or was it earlier in this one ) that you cannot bear ever being wrong about anything so all you have left is ad hominem all the time in lieu of any actual factual argument…whereas I endlessly give actual factual examples. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 6:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/142 "2025-02-08T18:57:03Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > Countered by my two sensor dampeners. Probably why my Harbinger is doctrine fit and your Gnosis isn’t. lol. If you can fit 2 Dampeners, a Gnosis with the same Range and DPS can fit 3. It just has _a lot more medslots_. Should have been said from the start that you want a damp war, rest assured the Harbinger loses that vs a Gnosis as well. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 6:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/143 "2025-02-08T18:58:21Z")
My point is that Gloria will say anything including changing subject, fallacies, direct counters and fake arguments to keep the status quo. Feverishly trying to convince people that the ships are fine. There is no discussion to be had with someone who is purposely dishonest and tries to gas light. And you’re falling for it, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/144 "2025-02-08T18:59:16Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > lol. If you can fit 2 Dampeners, a Gnosis with the same Range and DPS can fit 3. It just has _a lot more medslots_. But then you don’t have room for those shield boosters you were flying with earlier 🙂 Bear in mind also that I likely have twice as much tank as your Gnosis, and it is all passive. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 7:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/145 "2025-02-08T19:01:02Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > My point is that Gloria will say anything including changing subject, fallacies, direct counters and fake arguments to keep the status quo. Notice how I keep giving examples while you just carry right on and on with the ad hominem ? Have you ever discovered a device otherwise known as a mirror ? ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/146 "2025-02-08T19:06:05Z")
Your “examples” are direct counters that make no sense for the situation. If someone states “Gnosis are scary up close compared to other BC” and your reply is “lol just be at 80km”, and when someone then says the same thing you go “lol sensor dampeners” then you’re not only a tool, you’re also being purposefully misleading. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 7:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/147 "2025-02-08T19:13:02Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > Your “examples” are direct counters that make no sense for the situation. Sigh. It is a _contrived_ ‘situation’ in the first place. You can _always_ contrive a situation where one ship beats another. So what ? A Kestrel could blap a Gnosis, for example. Look, the Harbinger fitting is an actual doctrine fitting. I have flown it into combat. I’m pretty sure it _wouldn’t_ be doctrine fitting if any old random passing Gnosis could blap it in 5 seconds. Oh and here we go…Harbinger beats Gnosis… > **[Gnosis | Cruel Girl | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/124424562/)** > > Cruel Girl (Industrial Mining and Mayhem) lost their Gnosis in QS-530 (Esoteria). Final Blow by IIaTpioT UA (NOOBIAN UNION) flying in a Harbinger. Total Value: 93,644,151.69 ISK ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 7:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/148 "2025-02-08T19:16:48Z")
See, _instantly_ changing the subject. The Harb can be a doctrine fit because they can actually be produced en masse, you know for fleets. Back on subject: Th Gnosis is too powerful for the skills it requires, the cost and the amount of versatility it has. It needs nerfing, possibly be made omega only or just be phased out alltogether. If it’s not that special, why are you defending it so much. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 7:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/149 "2025-02-08T19:18:39Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > If it’s not that special, why are you defending it so much. > **[Loaded question](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question)** > > A loaded question is a form of complex question that contains a controversial assumption (e.g., a presumption of guilt). > Such questions may be used as a rhetorical tool: the question attempts to limit direct replies to be those that serve the questioner's agenda. The traditional example is the question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" Whether the respondent answers yes or no, they will admit to having beaten their wife at some time in the past. Thus, these facts are presupposed by the ques... ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 7:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/150 "2025-02-08T19:19:00Z")
And there’s the deflection. Why don’t you just answer the question? ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 7:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/151 "2025-02-08T19:19:30Z")
What you don’t get is that _whatever a Harbinger can do, the Gnosis can probably do it **better** _. And _cheaper_. With _less total SP_. Being extra kitey or sheer passive Armor Buffer being maybe the exceptions, but _superior_ in all other traits at the same time. I mean, you gone from “I go hunt suspects” to “I have 75km range” (how you catch a suspect from 75km, he will just warp away?), to “haha I have 2 damps!”… It doesn’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 7:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/152 "2025-02-08T19:19:42Z")
I don’t answer silly loaded questions that you use to deflect with. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 7:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/154 "2025-02-08T19:21:31Z")
OK…i’ve simply reached the point where your _endless ad hominems_ need flagging. I’ve had enough. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 7:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/155 "2025-02-08T19:25:30Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > What you don’t get is that _whatever a Harbinger can do, the Gnosis can probably do it **better** _. Well it didn’t in the example I gave above. You guys are theorycrafting, while I’ve given lots of actual examples, fittings, countermeasures, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/156 "2025-02-08T19:33:37Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > Well it didn’t in the example I gave above. Are you… stupid? One killmail we don’t know anything about is proof of.. what? Nothing. Oh wait…, I can play this game too… > **[Harbinger | longao li | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/124520817/)** > > longao li (Justice League of Republic) lost their Harbinger in Hadozeko (Metropolis). Final Blow by Akora Itiya Sasen (G0lden Fleet.) flying solo in a Gnosis. Total Value: 114,162,851.33 ISK And that is even quote some brick tanked buffer Harbinger fitted for PvP. Unfortunately we don’t know what happened here either. Gnosis could be maxblinged implanted boosterdrugged and have an easy game. Thats why those killmail-proofs are simply nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/157 "2025-02-08T19:35:43Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > Gloria will say anything including changing subject, fallacies, direct counters and fake arguments to keep the status quo. Reminds me of someone that I used to enjoy antagonizing by staying on point. I don’t want to out him but his name sounds a lot like brisk ruble. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/158 "2025-02-08T19:38:56Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > One killmail we don’t know anything about is proof of… what? Nothing. Its proof that a Harbinger can beat a Gnosis. Sigh. I give up. This alleged ‘debate’ is just way too mindlessly idiotic for me. Believe what you like. You’re going to anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 7:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/159 "2025-02-08T19:54:33Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > Its proof that a Harbinger can beat a Gnosis. I have never said it can’t. Sure it can. Even an Ibis can beat a Gnosis under the right circumstances. But with both pilots being equal and both ships using their abilities to the max, the Gnosis simply has the higher chances (by quite a bit) to win that comparison. Which makes it OP considering it does cost less, needs less SP, and being a surprise package for the opponent. Not even considered the ScanProbe Bonus (yes, also to Combat Probes) which makes it a pretty viable Hunter on top of all it’s combat abilities. Which was basically everything that was claimed: It’s too strong for its price or too cheap for it’s abilities. So it should be _nerfed_ - not removed. Adjusted not to be OP and overshadowing the racial counterparts for a cheaper price in the hands of a skilled vet. Thats all. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/160 "2025-02-08T21:03:05Z")
Well, you can’t beat _actual data_… Gnosis vs other Battlecruisers…the Gnosis has 2.5 times as many losses as kills. ![Gnosis Stats](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/0/1/1018c771a283763dcd14de97e94352782c7f16da.jpeg) Harbinger vs other Battlecruisers ( which would include the Gnosis )…its pretty much even… ![Harbinger Stats](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/2/f/c/2fccab48bb8bea723b37acd1701d5149a8c9883d.jpeg) I rest my case. And yes the red is ‘total’ losses, but even so it shows that the Harbinger has killed twice as many other battlecruisers as the Gnosis with a smaller percentage of the total losses. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 9:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046/161 "2025-02-08T21:33:55Z")
Maybe the guy should run for CSM. 🤔 😇 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alphas-and-free-to-play/476046.md?page=9)