# Amarrian Faithful in the Tribes **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [July 19, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622 "2019-07-19T16:16:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/21 "2019-08-09T14:49:37Z")
> [@Anabella\_Rella](#): > > I’ll take Seraphea’s “apostate” religion as it’s not antithetical to the very survival of the Matari people. You would. And that’s the issue. Our faith shouldn’t be watered down _for the approval of the faithless_. There are actual, legitimate, _huge_ problems in Amarr, yes, and those problems need to be addressed, but those problems aren’t to be fixed _for_ someone else’s approval, but because it’s the right, moral thing to do. And as long as people abandon their duties to fix those problems, because it’s difficult, because they’ll be more comfortable going somewhere else, then those problems _won’t go away_. Running and hiding doesn’t solve anything. Did it help the Republic during its hard times for Minmatar to run away to go live in the Federation? Did that make the Republic better? No. As members of the Amarrian faith, devout to God, it is our duty to build His empire in this world. Just because it’s broken right now doesn’t mean you just… give up on that duty. > [@Anabella\_Rella](#): > > so that we can serve in a feudalistic, static hierarchical society for multiple generations only to (maybe) emerge as second class vassals forever meant to serve the so-called “true Amarr”? This is one of the problems that needs to be fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/22 "2019-08-09T14:58:26Z")
> [@Anabella\_Rella](#): > > antithetical to the very survival of the Matari people. One thing that still doesn’t make sense to me, is how do people of the faith, actively reconcile the notion that people will _literally fight_ to the bitter end? And if its something that you simply accept, and push forward any way, at the end of the day, how is the faith any better than Sansha? ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/23 "2019-08-09T15:03:01Z")
It’s not about ‘accepting it’. It’s about not giving up hope. It’s _faith_. Faith in God to guide us and help us succeed in His mission. Faith that, if our current means are in error, that we will find other, better ways to bring the fallen back into the faith. And faith in the fallen to one day accept God into their lives again. ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/24 "2019-08-09T15:09:29Z")
By this logic, I would think, you have to fundamentally accept that failure in your goal is a distinct, and very possible, outcome, as there would be those that will reject the faith regardless of tactic. ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/25 "2019-08-09T15:11:16Z")
This actually leads to me a question for @Seraphea_Vellastraan - are there people amongst the Starkmanir that, now free, have rejected the faith and are exploring Matari spiritual traditions? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/26 "2019-08-09T15:44:30Z")
They’re the ones who have to be killed, you see. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/27 "2019-08-09T16:00:45Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > They’re the ones who have to be killed, you see. Oh ■■■■ off. ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/28 "2019-08-09T16:09:37Z")
But she is right, isn’t she? ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/29 "2019-08-09T16:10:04Z")
No, she is not. ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/30 "2019-08-09T16:10:59Z")
Explain to me how then, people who reject your attempts to bring them into the faith squares with your goal? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/31 "2019-08-09T16:11:44Z")
Not entirely. As I understand it, Samira’s viewpoint is that given enough time, the hold-outs will naturally dwindle, and their children will see the error of their parents’ ways. I was making a joke about her recent argument w/Anna, and doing it badly. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/32 "2019-08-09T16:22:46Z")
I already ■■■■■■■ told you. I’ve already ■■■■■■■ answered that question a million times on this forum. There was a whole ■■■■■■■ argument about it just other day in Off Topic. But you’ll all keep asking it, because you don’t actually care for the answer you get. It’s not _about_ an answer. You have your mind made up, and phrasing it as a question is just you being dishonest, because you don’t actually care. So, here’s the ■■■■■■■ answer, straight and simple, without an essay of Scripture and history that no one reads anyway (or just looks for lingual loopholes to poke at while ignoring the point). Amarr is not ■■■■■■■ about killing people. It never ■■■■■■■ has been. And assholes who have used it as an excuse to do that, are just ■■■■■■■ assholes. The end. Faith is how it squares into it. Faith that if things are ■■■■ now, we’ll still keep trying, and improving, until they aren’t. Not giving up just because it’s hard. If you can’t understand that, then I don’t know what to tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/33 "2019-08-09T16:29:35Z")
And actually, you know why I know you don’t care? Because you’re someone who’s already tried to justify the illegal Republic government purges “because they deserved it”. So clearly, if anyone in this conversation believes in killing others in the name of your beliefs, it’s you. ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/34 "2019-08-09T17:08:41Z")
> [@Samira\_Kernher](#): > > Not giving up just because it’s hard. If you can’t understand that, then I don’t know what to tell you. I understand. You are just in for an impossible struggle. > [@Samira\_Kernher](#): > > And actually, you know why I know you don’t care? Because you’re someone who’s already tried to justify the illegal Republic government purges “because they deserved it”. So clearly, if anyone in this conversation believes in killing others in the name of your beliefs, it’s you. I have never denied that, nor have I have tried to hide behind fancy rhetoric or word play. I recognize the purge for what it was. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 5:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/35 "2019-08-09T17:37:11Z")
> [@Cain\_Aloga](#): > > I recognize the purge for what it was. Mass murder and coverup? ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/36 "2019-08-09T18:05:12Z")
A necessary - and unsanctioned - purge, that may be considered a coup. ---
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/515671_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/37 "2019-08-09T23:52:03Z")
A coup? Yes. A purge of political opposition? Yes. Necessary? Who really knows since there were no trials and no evidence presented that could be independently verified. Pray, pilot, that no group ever decides that Shakor’s government has outlived its usefulness and needs to be similarly purged and replaced. The precedent has been set, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Karmilla\_Strife](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karmilla_strife/32/439678_2.png) [@Karmilla\_Strife](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karmilla_Strife)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/38 "2019-08-10T14:44:56Z")
We recognize the attempt as a failure. We learn from our mistakes, adapt our tactics if necessary, and try again. Killing is never the goal, but sometimes it’s an unfortunate necessity. ---
**Author:** ![system1](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system1)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/amarrian-faithful-in-the-tribes/176622/39 "2019-11-08T14:44:56Z")
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