# An idea to make a subcap counter to capital's to bring strategy back to eve instead of brute force **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Tags:** new, balance, modules\ **Created:** [March 28, 2018, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407 "2018-03-28T11:55:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/1 "2018-03-28T11:55:14Z")
Capital dominance is the game at the moment and it’s making combat pretty stale, I want to propose a strategic counter to capital dominance that is very hard to deploy but devastating if done well. For this idea I would like to use the stealth bomber for the following reasons: The stealth bomber is a ship designed to punch upwards only and be useless against it’s same size, it has positioning and the ability to move quickly across the galaxy with the help of black opp’s ship’s, making them really strong for counter initiation (during the madness of a fight where they might go unnoticed for long enough to wreck havoc). The idea I’m proposing would be a new type of bomb called focused variants of bombs like the focused void bomb, which has a very tiny Area of effect of 1-500m and is very light weight only 5m3 allowing the stealth bomber to provide a continued assault against capitals, damage per bomb would be 10k damage but with the 5 sec reload and the small m3 it would be able to output an extra 2k dps from pure bomb’s to capital ships on top of the torp damage. This make’s landing the Zero extremely difficult because of its flight time and would be almost useless against sub cap’s as they can move many km’s during the bomb’s flight time. But capital’s don’t move very fast at all leaving them very vulnerable to this type of bomb, the bomb’s ehp would have to be great enough to not die to a single pulse of smart bombing, but at the same time maybe 2 pulses would be able to kill them, giving capital pilots some type of defense against them if they are on point. Any criticism is welcome :] Edit: I see the focused void bomb is already pretty similar but without damage, could be possible that CCP has already considered it 😛 if so we really need something like this in my opinion. **_Some math_** : Carrier 8m ehp: 10 bombers doing 2500 dps from bombs + torp’s will take 5 minutes and a bit to kill the carrier without bomber losses, the carrier will more than likely be able to kill off all the bomber’s with its drones by then, so upping to 30 bombers would kill the carrier in just under 2 minutes, in those 2 minutes the carrier will be able to kill off most of the bomber’s but It would probibly die before all bombers are killed. Cost of carrier: 2.5 bil Cost of 30 Bombers: 2.25 bil Seems decent enough. Titan 35mil ehp: 200 bombers dealing 2500 damage would take 70 minutes to kill the titan. Launcher can hold 300m3 Half of stealth bomber cargo can hold 135m3 435m3 is 87 bombs (5m3 each) at 5 seconds per shot would last 7 minutes and about 15-20 seconds. So to be able to kill a titan in 7 minutes you would need 2000 bombers around. Cost of a titan 75b cost of 2000 bombers: 150bil Not very cost effective but at the same time those stealth bombers could have a hauler bringing in more ammo and just kill the titan over a longer period of time. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 1:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/2 "2018-03-28T13:00:17Z")
> [@Makshima\_Shogo](#): > > The idea I’m proposing would be a new type of bomb called the zero, which has a very tiny Area of effect of 1-500m but has a massive blast damage of **160k damage**. > [@Makshima\_Shogo](#): > > Any criticism is welcome :] No criticism. I’m simply shocked by the amount of damage of this thing. Do any restrictions apply or can it be used anywhere for, or against, anything? … ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 1:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/3 "2018-03-28T13:01:51Z")
Hmm well like normal bomb’s it would be limited to nullsec/wormholes, I would guess it would be cool to be able to use it against any target but be almost impossible to land on anything other than a capital or structure. Making it so that if you somehow are an insanely good pilot you have a tiny chance of landing it on enemy logi or something crazy, but predicting where a ship would be at that time to the km would be pretty difficult tbh, especially if you have to align your ship to that point and release at the exact time I don’t imagen it would actually be possible to hit a moving sub cap. My hope’s are that it’s possible to use something other than a capital to counter an enemy capital, with cost effectiveness thou, no point using 10bil of sub caps to counter a 2bil capital. Edit: Yea after doing some math it seems its way to strong will do some more calculations and change it. Changed it to a continual assault with light weight 10k damage bombs rather than 1 or 2 160k damage bomb’s per bomber seems like it would be easier to balance with numbers. ---
**Author:** ![DrysonBennington](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drysonbennington/32/501369_2.png) [@DrysonBennington](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DrysonBennington)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/4 "2018-03-28T14:24:27Z")
Why would anyone in the game want to use any type of strategy other than brute force? Using strategy would require having to think constantly. I used to FC fleets for Faction War. I liked setting my fleets up so that frigates and destroyers went in first then followed by cruisers and battle cruisers a few seconds later with the heavy BB DPS and long range then warping in. The frigates and destroyers catch the smaller ships chasing after them. The cruisers and battle cruisers then create that Oh sh_t moment while the BB end the moment with the F_&k while warping out in a pod. I do agree with you. I’m just stating the obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Agondray](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/agondray/32/414989_2.png) [@Agondray](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Agondray)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/5 "2018-03-28T17:03:09Z")
bombs would be a horrible idea, I though were going the torp/main gun route like having a bs with xl guns. besides our drone control nerf was due to a fleet being able to 1 shot anything short of a titan with 1 guy tagging things and every sentry drone responding to it. ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/6 "2018-03-28T17:27:46Z")
700 dps is not nearly enough to counter capitals it needs to be much higher, the idea behind bombs would be that it would up capital damage without increasing damage against bs’s, if torp’s where upped to that kind of dps then it would be broken. ---
**Author:** ![Erethond](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erethond/32/11049_2.png) [@Erethond](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erethond)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/7 "2018-03-28T19:02:16Z")
Special “anti-capital” torp with terrible application but higher damage? Berserk torpedo? Although the idea of a bomb, which requires a bit more active piloting, but also keeps the bomber safer, definitely has its advantages too. ---
**Author:** ![Mision\_Realizado](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mision_realizado/32/51919_2.png) [@Mision\_Realizado](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mision_Realizado)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/8 "2018-03-30T18:59:07Z")
There is a steep SP climb to undock a Carrier and launch T1 fighters. Meanwhile, it takes only the skill duration of the fighters themselves, ideally and or theoretically, to build an effective anti-fighter pilot. Should the bomb feature require the same amount of skill training (time wise) as the Capital operations tree? ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/9 "2018-03-30T20:26:46Z")
Don’t see why not could make it a very difficult skill to train for so its a big investment for what you get out of it. Carrier skills have other benefit’s so I think it could require something like warhead upgrades V, Target Navigation Prediction V, Bomb deployment V, Missile Bombardment V, Adv Weapon upgrades V for a start, maybe even thermal dynamics V they would all feel right law wise. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/10 "2018-03-30T20:55:01Z")
… did he just use carriers as an example? the easiest ship to counter in all of eve he wants another counter to? as for the idea there are already bombs built to counter capitals in this way. the focused void bombs will shut down the guns of most capitals and all of their tanking mods ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/11 "2018-03-30T21:05:02Z")
buffer fit + drone’s doesn’t really get effected by neut’s (armor), and that is only really to be used in conjunction with your own cap’s, the idea was to use sub caps to counter caps instead of assisting other caps doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/12 "2018-03-30T21:06:37Z")
no dread is going to be buffer fit carriers are already countered by ecm sub caps and if you are making these strong enough to threaten titans you are making them strong enough to blap carriers and dreads. you can already get fleets of 100+ bombers attacking carriers these bombs are too strong and this is exactly what we told foz when he proposed them ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/13 "2018-03-30T21:10:56Z")
You could land 1 or 2 b’s into scanned down bomber fleets and smart bomb them out of existence, 100 bombers is equal to the cost of 3 carrier’s thou and i’m sure 3 carrier’s worth of drones can do some serious damage to those bomber fleet’s, have not experienced this first hand thou but sounds like you have so ill take your word for it. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/14 "2018-03-30T21:12:44Z")
> [@Makshima\_Shogo](#): > > You could land 1 or 2 b’s into scanned down bomber fleets and smart bomb them out of existence, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about… ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/15 "2018-03-30T21:13:18Z")
> [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](#): > > you clearly have no idea what you are talking about… You sound like you only do meta stuff instead of thinking a little 😛 ill kindly ignore your comment then. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/16 "2018-03-30T21:20:11Z")
> [@Makshima\_Shogo](#): > > You sound like you only do meta stuff instead what does this have anything at all to do with you thinking you are going to warp to a BM and smart bomb off the cloud of bombers that just cynoed onto the carrier before the bombs blap it ---
**Author:** ![Mision\_Realizado](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mision_realizado/32/51919_2.png) [@Mision\_Realizado](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mision_Realizado)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/17 "2018-04-02T17:44:28Z")
I’ve seen buffer fit Titans, just throwing that out there ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/18 "2018-04-02T19:18:09Z")
what titan isn’t buffer fit? ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Argon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dave_argon/32/120202_2.png) [@Dave\_Argon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dave_Argon)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/19 "2018-05-28T15:20:39Z")
So. Imagine that. With an industrial ship cloacked in the system, or one jump away, with many ammos so SB can rearm. Do you realize how overpowered it is ? ---
**Author:** ![MinerArt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/minerart/32/33728_2.png) [@MinerArt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MinerArt)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407/20 "2018-05-28T16:13:31Z")
> [@Dave\_Argon](#): > > Do you realize how overpowered it is ? Thread Necromancy is very overpowered. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-idea-to-make-a-subcap-counter-to-capitals-to-bring-strategy-back-to-eve-instead-of-brute-force/66407.md?page=2)