# An interesting idea of ending Minmatar-Amarr conflict **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 1, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666 "2017-11-01T03:19:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/242 "2017-11-08T18:58:19Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > I do have the moral high ground as I am the one adhering to The Word as best I can It doesnt look like that from the place I am standing. These scriptures are good only to stand on them to see where truth really is. Abandon the cage of these primitive laws and uncage your mind, understand your nature. Understand that freedom is the way. ---
**Author:** ![Rana\_Ash](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rana_ash/32/374123_2.png) [@Rana\_Ash](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rana_Ash)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/243 "2017-11-08T19:04:53Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > “More ointments! THIS WILL SURELY FIX IT!” Put the ointment in the basket or it will be the hose again 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/244 "2017-11-08T19:22:22Z")
There is an important distinction to be made between Amarr breeding facilities and Caldari tube programs: The tube program does not involve rape. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/245 "2017-11-08T19:53:42Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > Whoever said consent was required? The Matarii whom the Amarr have plundered and removed forcibly from their homes and put into slavery. For starters. > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > I do not ask consent from my children Your false equivalency fallacy has no power here. Even if you do consider the Matarii children, which they’re are evidently not, they’re not _your_ children. > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > nor do I ask when dealing with my subjects. Nor are the Matarii your subjects. I understand you think they are but clearly they have decided differently. > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > It is their place to obey. On whose authority is that the Matarii have to obey any Amarr? > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > There are many things surrounding this topic that are illegal/sinful - they are one in the same - so called ‘erotic dancing’ for instance. Speaking of such things in public violates The Code of Demeanor. Yes, it makes me uncomfortable, because it is wrong. According to your primative edicts, perhaps. It bears little to no relevance in the rest of the cluster. > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > I do not agree speaking truth about the Gallente in itself is insulting, it is the behavior they exhibit that is insulting. Your misrepresentation of Gallente behaviour is an attempted insult. Most Gallente do not dance naked on a street corners, most who do are not whores and calling someone a whore is an attempt to slut shame. This argument is hereby refuted. > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > I do have the moral high ground as I am the one adhering to The Word as best I can where you heathens and apostates reject it I don’t care what your holy books say and perhaps there is good reason for me to reject your The Word? How do you, as a rational person, justify slavery? Tell me your thoughts without quoting your scriptures. ---
**Author:** ![Kumakatok](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kumakatok/32/348270_2.png) [@Kumakatok](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kumakatok)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/246 "2017-11-08T20:51:32Z")
> [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](#): > > There is an important distinction to be made between Amarr breeding facilities and Caldari tube programs: > > The tube program does not involve rape. I am sure there are many distinctions between the processes. However, rape is not one of them. In the artificial method to which I was referring, the insemination is done outside the body. Eggs and sperm are merely harvested. More essentially, in Amarr law, slaves are deemed property. The ‘human rights’ so keenly advocated by the Federation are not applicable. Rape implies a breach of consent. Property has no legal basis for giving or denying consent. Your chair is not abused if you sit upon it without seeking consent. It is interesting to me just how many contributors on the IGS appear to be adherents of the Gallente concepts and language of ‘rights’, regardless of their own heritage. The Federation is rather impressive in its reach, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/247 "2017-11-08T20:53:10Z")
You must be new here… > [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > The Matarii whom the Amarr have plundered and removed forcibly from their homes and put into slavery. For starters. Your false equivalency fallacy has no power here. Even if you do consider the Matarii children, which they’re are evidently not, they’re not your children. Nor are the Matarii your subjects. I understand you think they are but clearly they have decided differently. Those not of the Faith are God’s wayward children, we are responsible for returning them to Him. Given my answer about consent, do you think I pay much heed to the thoughts of heathens on the matter? > [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > On whose authority is that the Matarii have to obey any Amarr? According to your primative edicts, perhaps. It bears little to no relevance in the rest of the cluster. Seriously you know nothing of Amarr - God has given authority, and it does have relevance to everyone whether they accept it or not. > [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > Your misrepresentation of Gallente behaviour is an attempted insult. Most Gallente do not dance naked on a street corners, most who do are not whores and calling someone a whore is an attempt to slut shame. This argument is hereby refuted. If you are dancing naked on a street corner I’m calling you a whore, harlet, or slut. I swear you are attempting to say that being a slut is not shameful. > [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > I don’t care what your holy books say and perhaps there is good reason for me to reject your The Word? How do you, as a rational person, justify slavery? Tell me your thoughts without quoting your scriptures. You should care. It is the Way by which all should live. It is my duty to Reclaim. Many reject this to their detriment, they quite literally do not know what is best for them. By taking them on as slaves I have essentially total control over their lives, as rightly pointed out previously, and can structure said lives in a manner that, given time, they - or their descendants, shall be Faithful. Asking Amarr to think without Scripture is asking the near impossible, it is akin to asking you to obtain oxygen without breathing. ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/248 "2017-11-08T21:37:51Z")
> [@Kumakatok](#): > > It is interesting to me just how many contributors on the IGS appear to be adherents of the Gallente concepts and language of ‘rights’, regardless of their own heritage. The Federation is rather impressive in its reach, it seems. Well, no. It is the Amarr themselves who take actions against someone like Nauplius on the casus belli that he is abusing his slaves. This implies that they have some form of legal rights and that abusing slaves in the Empire is illegal on some basis. However, as you have said, the slaves someone like Nauplius legally purchases are his property, so as far as the Empire should be concerned whatever he does to them is not illegal, because after all a slave cannot give or deny consent to being abused, raped, tortured or murdered because they are property for an owner to do as they will. As such, why create a narrative against him that emphasizes his abuses, when such abuses are not abuses, because they were not committed against human beings but property? ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/249 "2017-11-08T21:45:50Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > You must be new here… Common knowledge. No special points there. > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > Those not of the Faith are God’s wayward children, we are responsible for returning them to Him. Can you justify that rationally using reason and evidence, without appealing to an unqualified authority like your scriptures, for practicing slavery? > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > God has given authority, and it does have relevance to everyone whether they accept it or not. Given that most in the cluster do not recognize your scriptures as a legitimate authority, as we’ve been given no good reason too, do you think we’re going to obey what your scriptures say? How do you rationalize slavery without your scriptures? > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > Given my answer about consent, do you think I pay much heed to the thoughts of heathens on the matter? Without good reason why should we accept your God or his position on slavery? > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > If you are dancing naked on a street corner I’m calling you a whore, harlet, or slut. Dancing naked on a street corner does not necessarily imply those things, despite the obvious discomfort such an appearance evidently causes you. It also has little bearing on why or why not I should find slavery acceptable. > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > I swear you are attempting to say that being a slut is not shameful. I suspect you’re attempting to dehumanize anyone who doesn’t follow your scriptures or ideas of decorum. Makes it easier to dismiss those who might criticize you if can lump them into the “they don’t matter” category, doesn’t it? How do you rationalize slavery apart from your scriptures? > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > You should care. It is the Way by which all should live. It is my duty to Reclaim. Many reject this to their detriment, they quite literally do not know what is best for them. By taking them on as slaves I have essentially total control over their lives, as rightly pointed out previously, and can structure said lives in a manner that, given time, they - or their descendants, shall be Faithful. You’re simply adding to your burden of proof. Claim after claim but no evidence or good argument why I should accept any of it. I’ve asked you for good evidence for your claim that slavery is acceptable. You’ve responded by saying that the scriptures are an authority, which is a claim. Then you responded by saying your authority comes from your god, which is another claim. So, without resorting to yet more claims, can you rationalize why slavery is acceptable? > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > Asking Amarr to think without Scripture is asking the near impossible… Your words. Please reflect on them for awhile. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/250 "2017-11-08T22:19:12Z")
I’m also liking your post because you exhibited a brief moment of honesty and self awareness at the end if it. ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/251 "2017-11-08T22:40:53Z")
I have answered your questions, but you still keep asking, and for lack of better way to explain - in a contradictory manner. Perhaps it’s something that is not being translated correctly… Repeatedly you ask - ‘rationalize apart from your scriptures.’ It cannot be done. Rationality comes from Scripture. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/252 "2017-11-08T23:13:22Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > I have answered your questions, but you still keep asking, and for lack of better way to explain - in a contradictory manner. Hardly, I’ve asked you to use reason and evidence, albeit with varying wording, to rationalize your stance in slavery. I’ve been very consistent. I’m sorry that you find it confusing. > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > Repeatedly you ask - ‘rationalize apart from your scriptures.’ It cannot be done. Yet others have done it and continue to do so. I don’t buy this claim as I have no good reason too. Yet, since you clearly concede it can only conclude that you can provide no clear rationale why slavery should be acceptable. > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > Rationality comes from Scripture. How do you know, is it because the scriptures say so? ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/253 "2017-11-08T23:26:21Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > How do you know, is it because the scriptures say so? It is. Such a simple trick and works wonders. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Ascentior](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ascentior/32/266358_2.png) [@Ascentior](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ascentior)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/254 "2017-11-08T23:58:34Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > Both slavery and intimate relationships are subsets of human relationships, would you not agree? Lasers and vocal criticism are both ways of showing disagreement with another’s actions or opinions. Do you get those confused as well? ---
**Author:** ![Ascentior](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ascentior/32/266358_2.png) [@Ascentior](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ascentior)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/255 "2017-11-09T00:10:11Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > Hardly, I’ve asked you to use reason and evidence, albeit with varying wording, to rationalize your stance in slavery. I’ve been very consistent. I’m sorry that you find it confusing. Refusing to accept the Word of God as evidence is your decision, not the failing of Lady Newelle\*. It seems if a bullet hit you in the chest, you’d require paperwork to legitimise it’s existence before you’d believe you were shot. \*However, Lady Newelle might have room to take you on as a subject in her facilities, in which case the Lady _would_ be responsible for your religious education. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 12:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/256 "2017-11-09T00:12:41Z")
> [@Ascentior](#): > > Lasers and vocal criticism are both ways of showing disagreement with another’s actions or opinions. Do you get those confused as well? Is conflation and misrepresenting an argument a favorite past time of yours? My comparison was sound. One might be healthy relationship the other not. Yours was just silly. Try harder. ---
**Author:** ![Ascentior](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ascentior/32/266358_2.png) [@Ascentior](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ascentior)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/257 "2017-11-09T00:14:01Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > My comparison was sound. Do you have reason and evidence to rationlize your stance? ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 12:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/258 "2017-11-09T00:15:29Z")
> [@Ascentior](#): > > Refusing to accept the Word of God as evidence The “Word of God” is the claim not the evidence. You’re not good at this, are you? ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/259 "2017-11-09T00:18:40Z")
> [@Ascentior](#): > > > [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > > > My comparison was sound. > > Do you have reason and evidence to rationlize your stance? You want me to pull up all the research from accredited scientific journals on what are human relationships? Lol. Whatever, it’s not a hard burden of proof to bear. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 1:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/260 "2017-11-09T01:31:59Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > Given that most in the cluster do not recognize your scriptures as a legitimate authority, as we’ve been given no good reason too, do you think we’re going to obey what your scriptures say? How do you rationalize slavery without your scriptures? You are talking to someone from a faith who blindly follow their scriptures. The same scriptures that dictates to them the destruction of all people who don’t blindly follow what “is written.” Ask them about the matari, the Gallante, the Jove and how right “his word” was. The matari exist still, the Gallante exist, the Jove exist(ed) after their attempts to prove _his_ might. Don’t expect much of reason from them, they’re too buzy with their books… ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 1:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/261 "2017-11-09T01:48:40Z")
> [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > Ask them about the matari, the Gallante, the Jove and how right “his word” was. The matari exist still, the Gallante exist, the Jove exist(ed) after their attempts to prove his might. I considered mentioning that and asking if our sheer existence is an affront to their god and scriptures. I decided that might be a too trite. Thank you for the warning. I guess I continue to hope that perhaps I might one day break through to one of them. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666.md?page=12) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666.md?page=14)