# An interesting idea of ending Minmatar-Amarr conflict **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 1, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666 "2017-11-01T03:19:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 8:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/303 "2017-11-09T20:54:14Z")
> [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](#): > > In effect, that they should not be considered human beings but treated just like any other piece of inanimate property Who of Faith has said this? > [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](#): > > As such, if a particularly edgy mood strikes me, I could just hop on over to the Amarr Empire, buy some Amarr, Ealur, Gallente, and Ni-Kunni slaves on the SCC market and who knows, maybe I’ll shoot them all into a star, set them all on fire, or why not just be real old school and behead them so I can make a giant mountain of skulls as my own personal art installation someplace in the Empire? I have two objections to this. First, you should not even be able to purchase these slaves - hence our petition to Her Majesty Catiz I. Second, and pretending for a moment you are a Holder, you are grossly failing in your duty in trying to Reclaim these slaves. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/304 "2017-11-09T21:02:59Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > Who of Faith has said this? I’m going to assume, given the theocracy nature of the Amarr Empire, that the people signing on with CONCORD etc etc were of the Faith, no? Or are perhaps all the treaties and deals the Empire have made _forced_ upon the ‘chosen of God’ somehow? I mean, if there’s religious principles at play here should they not also extend to what the Empire legally condones within their own territories as far as capsuleers go? I’m sure this is just some sort of oversight and doesn’t actually represent the faithful of the Empire, like its rulers who supposedly agree to these laws and regulations. > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > First, you should not even be able to purchase these slaves - hence our petition to Her Majesty Catiz I. Second, and pretending for a moment you are a Holder, you are grossly failing in your duty in trying to Reclaim these slaves. Careful now. Your _betters_ disagree and have signed treaties to that effect. Oh gosh, it’s almost as if it’s all just hypocrisy and words that are completely contradicted by action. Good golly. ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/305 "2017-11-09T21:20:13Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > I have two objections to this. First, you should not even be able to purchase these slaves - hence our petition to Her Majesty Catiz I. Second, and pretending for a moment you are a Holder, you are grossly failing in your duty in trying to Reclaim these slaves. Looking at the market data, there is a host of Imperial corporations and institutions offering the sale of slaves. It seems I along with anyone else is able to purchase slaves from the Empire, and it is Imperial organizations that make them freely available to do so. Putting them for sale seems to imply that said organizations view them as nothing more than property and goods to be traded. If they cared about things like religious rules and regulations then one has to ask why put them on an unregulated market in the first place. As such, Imperial institutions put slaves for sale and there don’t seem any further checks required beyond having the relevant amount of ISK. What I may, or may not do with them in the Empire would thus be my own concern, they would be my property to do as I will with. I’m not sure then if the narrative of capsuleers how the Amarr care about the treatment of their slaves towards a religious reclaiming holds much water when their own institutions they profess loyalty towards seem to view them as goods to be sold and bought by quite literally anyone off the street with enough ISK. ---
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/515671_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/306 "2017-11-09T21:25:20Z")
There’s so much crap in this thread that I’m glad I’m wearing boots. I hate to be on the same side as Pilot Shutaq but I’m of the same opinion that maybe we should just drop all the pretense of civil discourse and be at each others throats and settle this once and for all. Let the nukes fly and the planets burn and whomever is left standing gets to write the final chapter. Less jibber jabber and more explosions I say!\* \*Intended purely as sarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/307 "2017-11-09T21:26:51Z")
> [@Anabella\_Rella](#): > > \*Intended purely as sarcasm. Which will be entirely missed by some. Despite you pointing it out…explicitly. ---
**Author:** ![Jev\_North](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jev_north/32/100533_2.png) [@Jev\_North](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jev_North)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/308 "2017-11-09T21:30:54Z")
If they joke about it more than twice, it’s their fetish. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/309 "2017-11-09T21:31:05Z")
> [@Anabella\_Rella](#): > > drop all the pretense of civil discourse It doesn’t look you ever had such pretense, tribal. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/310 "2017-11-09T21:31:18Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > if she made that article on a device similar to mine It was written on the go, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/311 "2017-11-09T21:32:43Z")
I suspect Aldieboo would blanch at having his words interpreted in that particular fashion. For a Pendulum Pretense participant, he’s rather squeamish about _actual_ war. ---
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/515671_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/312 "2017-11-09T21:36:06Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > It doesn’t look you ever had such pretense, tribal. Not when it comes to you, you stiff-necked, asexual little git, no. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/313 "2017-11-09T21:39:30Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > I have two objections to this. First, you should not even be able to purchase these slaves - hence our petition to Her Majesty Catiz I. Second, and pretending for a moment you are a Holder, you are grossly failing in your duty in trying to Reclaim these slaves. You know, this raises an interesting point. Imperial Law holds that the Scriptures are, you know, _law_, right? At least, the bits of the Scriptures that lay out what you are and aren’t allowed to do? Yet capsuleers are exempted, and they’re governed primarily by CONCORD’s regulations, except in cases where they’ve been individually singled out as ‘enemies of the Empire’ because of shooting Imperial ships (and there’s very little else that gets you on that list). So why are capsuleers’s whims, and CONCORD’s regulations, placed _above_ the Divine Will? ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/314 "2017-11-09T22:01:29Z")
There was a righteous reason, of that I am sure. I am just not in a position to give it as I have never sat on the Throne nor can I, with my limited wisdom over such far reaching matters, discern one with any amount of certainty - I do entertain some theories, but they are little more than speculation. Perhaps if our petition is responded to it may shed some light on the matter. I have voiced my dislike of the Empire being tied to CONCORD and would be pleased to see any progress made on distancing ourselves from them. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/315 "2017-11-09T22:05:04Z")
Oh _yes please!_ ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/316 "2017-11-09T22:06:47Z")
As a follow-up: That designation was made before Jamyl Sarum’s ascension to the Throne. So why have multiple successive Empresses _confirmed_ that the whims of Capsuleers are to be placed above the Will of God? ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/317 "2017-11-09T22:14:34Z")
Perhaps the reason has yet to fully reach its conclusion. Perhaps the Throne simply has not had the time or placed it in such a priority to address it. You are asking me to know the mind of the Throne, and I am quite far removed from it. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/318 "2017-11-09T22:15:59Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > > [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > > > if she made that article on a device similar to mine > > It was written on the go, yes. As promised, doubly impressed. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/319 "2017-11-09T22:37:07Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > You are asking me to know the mind of the Throne, and I am quite far removed from it. I’m asking you to do what any member of the Faithful should be capable of doing in the event that they’re somehow cut off from the direction of the Throne: use your knowledge of Scripture and your faith to come to the right awareness of what is right and what is wrong, and be able to explain to someone outside the faith how that principle is understood. After all, Scripture is a guide for how to live in accordance with God’s Will, yes? If you were marooned on an uninhabited planet with only a few thousand of the Faithful, and the empire utterly destroyed, the Faithful should be able to continue to serve God without the smoking ruins of the Empire telling them how do to it, right? ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 10:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/320 "2017-11-09T22:54:45Z")
> [@Anabella\_Rella](#): > > Not when it comes to you, you stiff-necked, asexual little git, no. Thank you for displaying once again why negotiations with tribals are futile. I wonder, how many minmatars more we shall kill before you start behaving? ---
**Author:** ![kul\_Shaishi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kul_shaishi/32/245841_2.png) [@kul\_Shaishi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/kul_Shaishi)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 11:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/321 "2017-11-09T23:21:43Z")
@Diana_Kim you are a chaos fighter and you know the total war Will bring revolution to all and victory to none ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/322 "2017-11-09T23:45:11Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > The purpose of ‘life’ is, in fact, ‘life’: to replicate, to endure, to make more of itself. Sorry, Arrendis, but I’m going to zero in on this. Function, even extremely capable function, does not imply purpose. A statue that falls from a shelf and clubs some luckless person over the head is an example of this-- it probably wasn’t put there to murder anybody, but serves that function very well. “Purpose” implies conscious direction. DNA, with its random and sometimes detrimental mutations, lacks “purpose”-- unless you are willing to posit a designer (which I am not). Now-- that said, I don’t disagree too much with your basic sketch of the (subjective, functional) purpose of a society, though I tend to describe it mostly as a matter of trying to let there be more (and more, and more) humans without them murdering each other. That’s kind of the baseline for me; suffering is something to try to minimize, but it seems like nobody’s actually very good at getting rid of it. Thinking about it at the moment, my difficulty with what you describe as the “bottom up” mode of governance is that I don’t trust ordinary people very far. I’m not sure many Caldari (or related peoples) do; maybe it’s just the way we’re taught, but, while you do have to keep kind of an eye on your elites (in some way) to make sure they’re leading with everybody in mind instead of just themselves, they at least can theoretically be depended on to be practical about stuff. The common folk (the laborers and, to a lesser degree, technicians, in Caldari society) are where you find most of the scary stuff: Templis Dragonaurs, or U-NATs, depending on where you are-- people who know nothing, and don’t care, because they’re so _sure_. It’s why I don’t trust the Federation to stay stable in the long term; its most recent flirtation with mob rule merely saw a man executed-- horribly-- by injecting him with a sound-sensitive mutagen and letting a crowd shout him to death. Before that, at the outbreak of the original Caldari/Gallente war, it was so much worse. I don’t mind seeing the experiments; just, I’m not at all ready to declare a victor in the “best-functioning civilization” contest, or concede that “reason” grants one superiority over another. The Amarrian model, by the way, I see as being, more than about God or faith or blood, about an idea: “What if we unite all of humanity?” … Their methods are kind of focused on this. From the outside such a goal is pretty hard to distinguish from conquest, though-- probably because there’s no daylight at all between one and the other. A civilization that pursues such an agenda is bound to be seen as an aggressive and dangerous power, even, as your own objections to Amarr influenced by the Pax Amarria demonstrate, if they approach it by peaceful means. History’s kind of full of peoples united by persuasion or force, though, you know? … I think most of our nations used to be fragmented into much smaller entities. I wonder how many nations there used to be, across the cluster, that are no more, because something big and aggressive came along and ate them? Is the world so much more awful, because that happened? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666.md?page=15) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666.md?page=17)