# An interesting idea of ending Minmatar-Amarr conflict **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 1, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666 "2017-11-01T03:19:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/323 "2017-11-10T00:08:49Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > “Purpose” implies conscious direction. Not so. Purpose implies primary function, the function that the structure serves. DNA’s primary function is making more of itself. Thus, it is its purpose. Edit: And yes, it randomly and often detrimentally mutates. So what? Do _you_ get everything right all the time? > [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > I tend to describe it mostly as a matter of trying to let there be more (and more, and more) humans without them murdering each other. You mean it serves the purpose of perpetuating the DNA replication chain? Yep. That’s basically what it, and pretty much every other human endeavor, is actually for. > [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > The common folk (the laborers and, to a lesser degree, technicians, in Caldari society) are where you find most of the scary stuff: Templis Dragonaurs, or U-NATs, depending on where you are-- people who know nothing, and don’t care, because they’re so sure. It’s why I don’t trust the Federation to stay stable in the long term; its most recent flirtation with mob rule merely saw a man executed-- horribly-- by injecting him with a sound-sensitive mutagen and letting a crowd shout him to death. Before that, at the outbreak of the original Caldari/Gallente war, it was so much worse. Sure, these aberrations exist, but if you drill down into them, they exist as pockets of top-down structure within the larger one. Mobs don’t gain cohesion without a leader. Without a leader, mobs remain listless and unfocused. They break up. It’s the leader(s), projecting authority and using their will to direct and guide the mob, that makes for self-sustaining social machinery like the Dragonaurs. > [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > Is the world so much more awful, because that happened? Probably. ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/324 "2017-11-10T00:17:03Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > I’m asking you to do what any member of the Faithful should be capable of doing in the event that they’re somehow cut off from the direction of the Throne Then I have answered you - “First, you should not even be able to purchase these slaves”, and by extension there would be no exception to the Imperial Rite as I understand them to be. That said, I am not the Throne, I am not the Theology Council, I am not the Ministry of Internal Order, I am not the Order of St Tetrimon. I am but one person and the sheer vastness of Scripture precludes my knowing but a minuscule fraction of it’s entirety in any great detail. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 12:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/325 "2017-11-10T00:42:19Z")
Oh! … I see. So, I’ve all of a sudden realized, my purpose in this existence is metabolizing oxygen. It makes sense, really: it’s probably the single thing I do the most often, and there’s a tremendous amount of support activity that goes into guaranteeing that I will continue to metabolize oxygen for as long as possible. All this other stuff that isn’t directly supporting oxygen metabolization in either the near or long term is just a hobby. (You realize that nature, and reproduction in particular, is traditionally a source of normative “guidance” for people who want to do stuff like basically turn us into baby factories, right, Arrendis? I’m sure you of all people don’t mean it that way, but…) ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 12:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/326 "2017-11-10T00:43:52Z")
Things are getting weird in here. ---
**Author:** ![Lasairiona\_Raske](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lasairiona_raske/32/467893_2.png) [@Lasairiona\_Raske](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lasairiona_Raske)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 12:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/327 "2017-11-10T00:45:07Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > Things are getting weird in here. Things are always weird. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/328 "2017-11-10T01:12:54Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > Things are getting weird in here. There’s no _reductio ad absurdum_ without the _absurdum_, my lord. ---
**Author:** ![kul\_Shaishi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kul_shaishi/32/245841_2.png) [@kul\_Shaishi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/kul_Shaishi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/329 "2017-11-10T01:17:42Z")
have you ever considered calling yourself a viceroy as a title ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/330 "2017-11-10T01:23:53Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > Oh! … I see. So, I’ve all of a sudden realized, my purpose in this existence is metabolizing oxygen. It’s certainly up there on the list. > [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > All this other stuff that isn’t directly supporting oxygen metabolization in either the near or long term is just a hobby. Welcome to the wonders of emergent behavior. Consider: as a chemical cascade, we basically turn fuel into waste heat. If you want a higher purpose, that’s the purpose DNA’s replication serves: to continue that conversion. All of our emergent behavior serves to increase the complexity of what we do, to allow us to spread farther, make more of us, and so on and so forth. Even in the case of those of us who don’t reproduce ourselves. In nature, this is often exhibited among other animals. They have non-reproducing individuals, including varying degrees of gender relationships. These tend to serve as alternate caretakers and providers for offspring in social species. In other words, yeah, no. No need to bring ‘baby factories’ into the mix. We’re all about the perpetuation of DNA, even without our _own_ reproduction on the table. But again, not a bad try. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/331 "2017-11-10T01:32:21Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > The Amarrian model, by the way, I see as being, more than about God or faith or blood, about an idea: “What if we unite all of humanity?” Is that what it is? How do you know this, or is this something you want to be true? You’re sure it’s not, “let’s unite all humanity with all being equal, just us being more equal than the rest?” ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 1:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/332 "2017-11-10T01:33:31Z")
You’re saying we’re an expression of entropy, which is a neat idea, but, actually, I don’t think the stars (or entropy-- or humanity) care a lot how efficiently we’re converting fuel into waste heat. I don’t think “purpose” and “function” are so closely entangled, Arrendis. … Particularly since “purpose” is freighted with value judgment as to what qualities are important compared to which others. That makes it pretty subjective. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 1:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/333 "2017-11-10T01:36:42Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > I don’t think the stars (or entropy-- or humanity) care a lot how efficiently we’re converting fuel into waste heat. Ms Jenneth, the universe doesn’t care period. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. Are you saying that you need a purpose for your life to matter? ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 1:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/334 "2017-11-10T01:40:43Z")
It’s a key part of the Amarrian faith, Ms. Ambrye: the Reclaiming. It’s called that because they’re trying to “reclaim” humanity for God, to rebuild the kingdom of God in this world. I’m kind of a target, presently, so I’m getting to learn a lot about Amarrian faith and culture. I don’t think I mentioned equality at all. It’s a hierarchical society, and most of the society does consider bloodline important. Though, just how important, and for how long, is maybe up for debate, depending who you ask… You’ve been arguing with one of the first Ni-Kunni Holders, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 1:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/335 "2017-11-10T01:46:45Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > It’s a key part of the Amarrian faith, Ms. Ambrye: the Reclaiming. It’s called that because they’re trying to “reclaim” humanity for God, to rebuild the kingdom of God in this world. I’m a bit fuzzy on Amarrian history, but wasn’t the first Reclaiming a bid to defeat a nation that threatened to overwhelm them with sheer numbers? Back in a time where they had forgotten about other worlds than their own? I suspect that puts the lie to what the current interpretion of Reaclaiming is, which the Amarr have only done due to their inability to cow the existing Federation, State and Jovan. Perhaps you don’t agree? ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 1:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/336 "2017-11-10T01:47:03Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > Ms Jenneth, the universe doesn’t care period. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. Are you saying that you need a purpose for your life to matter? Hmm. … Not really? It was Arrendis who was deriving purpose from DNA. Though actually I think she was kind of messing around-- she does that, and the argument that entropy is the nearest thing to a “higher purpose” we have kind of clinched it except as an argument about the larger role we play in the macrocosm (in which light, it’s actually kind of an interesting consideration but I don’t think it carries any normative weight). Purpose, to me, is a subjective thing. For my own part, I’m content with the one I have presently for the time being. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 1:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/337 "2017-11-10T01:48:46Z")
No, I don’t agree. When the Amarr talk about Reclaiming someone, historically that’s meant invasion and enslavement, whether it was the Udorians, the Ni-Kunni, or the poor Ealur. Or the Minmatar. What’s changed is the ability to Reclaim by the sword. That’s not so widely thought of as feasible anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/338 "2017-11-10T01:53:59Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > When the Amarr talk about Reclaiming someone, historically that’s meant invasion and enslavement, Why would anybody, other than Amarr, think this is a good idea? To ask the existing nations to accept such an proposal is to ask them to turn their brains off and trust a bunch of humans who claim to have a hotline to some deity. Not just in running the affairs of state either, but every detail of their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/339 "2017-11-10T01:59:42Z")
They wouldn’t, of course. Even if, given a couple thousand years of hindsight, an invasion doesn’t seem quite so awful, people don’t take to it so well at the time. Even if it’s not yet to the point where the roof’s just come down on your children and your husband’s been shot and your grandmother’s on fire, and nobody’s in chains, the threat’s not a comfy prospect. Neither, generally, is the idea of “us” turning, culturally, into “them.” Even if it’s not necessarily a complete conversion. (Ni-Kunni cuisine’s really neat, as are their gardens.) ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/340 "2017-11-10T02:03:47Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > They wouldn’t, of course. Putting objections over being attacked, captured and enslaved aside…if Amarr scriptures are correct and their deity the one true god, why aren’t they winning? More importantly, why haven’t they won? ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 2:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/341 "2017-11-10T02:05:11Z")
'Cause it’s not supposed to be _easy_. Depending on who you ask, it might not even be predestined-- if they don’t live up to their status as God’s Chosen, they might fail. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/342 "2017-11-10T02:13:23Z")
Few things ever are easy. It is strange though, don’t you think, that if their god really cared about the Amarr doing his (her?) work of Reclaiming, that this god would make sure the instructions were clear and not subject to the interpretations of mere mortals? That it would step in every once in awhile and literally say, “Hey, dimbulb stop doing that. That’s not what I said. This is what I want you to do.” I mean my corp directors do that all of the time. They’ve even done it me. It straightens things right up. What’s preventing this omnipotent, omniscient being from doing the same? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666.md?page=16) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666.md?page=18)