# An interesting idea of ending Minmatar-Amarr conflict **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 1, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666 "2017-11-01T03:19:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Halcyon\_Ember](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/halcyon_ember/32/131702_2.png) [@Halcyon\_Ember](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Halcyon_Ember)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/21 "2017-11-01T14:21:58Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > Apparently it needs repeating… again… there are none of “your” people here, there are only ours. I mean, if you claim them by right of conquest and right of breeding them as one would a dog, then sure. But they’re not dogs, they’re people. I’m pretty sure you haven’t asked them all if they consider themselves _your_ people. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/22 "2017-11-01T14:22:42Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > The Empire is not responsible for breaking the peace. The Empire most assuredly is responsible for breaking the peace. There has been no peace between my people and the Empire since the Day of Darkness. Families remain enslaved because children must atone for the sins of their ancestors, right? ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/23 "2017-11-01T14:26:24Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > There has been no peace between my people and the Empire since the Day of Darkness. So then you and your Republic had no intention on living peaceably with the Empire. At least you admit you Matari are treacherous liars. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/24 "2017-11-01T14:37:02Z")
I said nothing of the Republic. As for my _people_… we have every intention of living peacefully with the Empire as neighbors… just as soon as the Empire is willing to live peacefully with us. Right now, you’re not. You—you, specifically, Mitara—continue to hold our people as slaves, to subject them to the same barbarous brainwashing and cruelty that your _masters_ have inflicted for centuries. You deny them their heritage and their culture, forcing upon them not even your _own_ culture and identity, but the one you and your own ancestors had brutally forced upon you, in turn. You are a victim of abuse, turned abuser, as happens so _damned_ often. And you tell yourself it’s ok. That it’s good for them. Because you don’t _dare_ contemplate just how badly mauled and violated you are yourself. Destroying who they are is fine… warping and twisting them into some bastardized version of the scum that hold your own leash is _benevolent_… because the Amarr have a _book_ that tells you to obey the Amarr. How _convenient_ for them. And it goes on, generation after generation, just like it did to you, so that each time through, the Amarr can filter out just a little bit more of who they are, make the bastardization just that much more _Amarr_. If you want more Amarr, go knock up the Empress. Keep your damned rapist culture away from my people. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/25 "2017-11-01T15:03:52Z")
> [@Kalaratiri](#): > > Imagine, for a moment, if a stranger came to your family’s house one night. They do not knock, or request entry, they simply enter. They abduct your brother from his bed That’s what happened when Elder Fleet invaded the Empire. > [@Kalaratiri](#): > > This continues for centuries. Except it happened centuries ago and it’s all the history. Just as Gallente betraying Caldari, as they bombarded our home planet, as they tried to rob us out of our colonies, as they forced us out. But it’s all the history already. We hate gallente for that. You hate amarr for that. But we do not fight gallente “because they were bombarding us”. We fight them because of what they do to us NOW, not in the past. Slave raids are long in the past. Matari had rebelled and created their own Republic. We had won our independence in a bloody war, lasting almost hundred of year. > [@Kalaratiri](#): > > If you truly believe the Matari people to be the unwarranted aggressors in this situation then you are blind. More than anything I feel sorry for you. I am not blind, and I try to see as much as I can. And I see unwarranted aggression by Minmatar Empire, backed by nothing, but blind hatred for crimes of people who are long dead, trying to hurt their innocent descendants. > [@Kalaratiri](#): > > The Republic wants nothing more than to have its brothers and sisters returned. If this was to happen, there would be no further need for war. They were returned. Slave raids to Matari lands (I don’t know how to call it properly - before they were turned into Empire space) ended several hundred years ago (700-ish). By decree of Her Majesty Empress Jamyl all slaves of 9th generation and up were released. That means that current slaves in the Empire are those, who were enslaves only in approximate ~270-300 year deep time frame. While descendants of all those, who were enslaved initially - are now free. Then who are these new slaves, you might ask? The answer is simple. Criminals. As I have learned from MIO when I was helping them, current Empire enslaving doctrine allows enslaving only criminals and prisoners of War. Considering the war started only 9 years ago, the majority of current Amarr Empire slaves are people, serving their penal punishment. (Well, or heretics - as I know, it is a crime in the Empire to be a heretic, and it still makes them criminals, because it was violation of the Empire law). Now you tell me, how do you feel if Amarr would invade your home and demand to release prisoners, especially if one, for example, killed one of your relatives or something like that? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/26 "2017-11-01T15:09:44Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Slave raids to Matari lands (I don’t know how to call it properly - before they were turned into Empire space) ended several hundred years ago (700-ish). No. They didn’t. RSS and Fleet agents hire capsuleers to deal with Imperial Navy slaving raids every damned day. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/27 "2017-11-01T15:12:14Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > No. They didn’t. RSS and Fleet agents hire capsuleers to deal with Imperial Navy slaving raids every damned day. That is illegal both according to Empire and CONCORD laws. ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/28 "2017-11-01T15:14:35Z")
That doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. People break the law sometimes. Something I’m sure you’re aware of. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/29 "2017-11-01T15:17:27Z")
> [@Kalaratiri](#): > > That doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. > > People break the law sometimes. Something I’m sure you’re aware of. Yes. They are called criminals and dealt with. According to Empire laws, they themselves shall be enslaved for that. If you want to attack the Empire because of illegal slavery, why you don’t attack the Republic as well, since they have probably the largest illegal slavery organization - called Angel Cartel. ---
**Author:** ![Halcyon\_Ember](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/halcyon_ember/32/131702_2.png) [@Halcyon\_Ember](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Halcyon_Ember)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/30 "2017-11-01T15:18:39Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Angel Cartel. Conflating a criminal population not recognised as a legal part of the republic, which the republic makes attempts to deal with, with the republic itself is a disingenuous attempt to muddy the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/31 "2017-11-01T15:19:04Z")
I am a part of the Cartel. We are not a part of the Republic. Attacking the Republic for the Cartel makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 3:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/32 "2017-11-01T15:25:05Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > probably the largest illegal slavery organization - called Angel Cartel. Pretty sure the Imperial Navy is larger… since you seem to actually _believe_ the Amarr claims that it’s not being done under orders. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/33 "2017-11-01T16:49:58Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Pretty sure the Imperial Navy is larger… since you seem to actually believe the Amarr claims that it’s not being done under orders. As a side note, the Amarr broadly seem to believe their own claims on this score, Arrendis. Illegal slavers who get caught tend to be treated … uh. Harshly. 'Course, if you’re looking at it cynically that might just mean the punishment is for getting caught… ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/34 "2017-11-01T16:57:02Z")
I think that should be self-evident, Aria. After all, even if we only look at the last five years of this activity, it’s systemic enough that if the Amarr Empire _weren’t_ intentionally doing this as some kind of technically-deniable action, that means they’ve had _hundreds of thousands of ships mutinying against the Admiralty_. Do you think that sort of thing wouldn’t trigger a massive effort to find out just exactly _is_ behind this, if it wasn’t already known? Could a criminal conspiracy of this scale operate as an _open secret_ for this long without, I dunno, _anyone_ saying ‘hey, we should maybe find out who’s ordering our ships to do the things we ordered them not to do’, just on the basis of ‘you are disobeying the Empress’ orders’? Is that _really_ feasible in an environment where literally _every single communication to and from every ship and station in the Navy is automatically logged and archived_? ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/35 "2017-11-01T17:03:53Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > I think that should be self-evident, Aria. … might be that it’s self-evident from a more Republic point of view. It probably won’t surprise you that I haven’t seen a single raid, nor have I been invited to go on any. I probably shouldn’t speculate too much on this, though. Oh-- one thing I do note, Arrendis, is that border-testing definitely goes both ways. The Empire and State pretty regularly see Federal and Republic forces deep inside their borders. (Come to that, there’s a question-- are the Amarrian ships you’re talking about definitely slave-taking? The intruders here normally seem to be sort of trying to establish footholds; I’ve been interpreting it as kind of ongoing strategic sparring.) ---
**Author:** ![Ibrahim\_Tash-Murkon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ibrahim_tash-murkon/32/474183_2.png) [@Ibrahim\_Tash-Murkon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ibrahim_Tash-Murkon)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/36 "2017-11-01T17:07:06Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > It probably won’t surprise you that I haven’t seen a single raid, nor have I been invited to go on any. Oh no! We never invited you on a raid!? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/37 "2017-11-01T17:07:49Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > I haven’t seen a single raid, nor have I been invited to go on any. You’re also a capsuleer, not regular Imperial Navy. It’s the baseliners, the Golden Fleet, doing this. I don’t see why you’d expect to have been invited along. and border-testing and little skirmishings? That’s one thing. _Kidnapping people to force them into a system of physical, cultural, and emotional violence, violation, and abuse is something completely different_. And yes, Aria, they are _slaving_. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/38 "2017-11-01T17:10:35Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > It’s the baseliners, the Golden Fleet, doing this. I don’t see why you’d expect to have been invited along I didn’t say I expected to be. What I was saying was, “It might be self-evident from your point of view. From over here it isn’t, so much.” Mostly what I’ve seen is what the Amarr do when they find out about it. That is, typically, do something about it. I don’t think Lord Consort Newelle is lying when he talks about shooting them himself. (I _think_ that was what he said?) ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/39 "2017-11-01T17:12:38Z")
I have personally gotten fresh “cattle” out of the wrecks of fairly sizable slaver fleets flying the Imperial Navy flag, Aria. Yes, they’re slavers. I once even lost a Heavy Assault Cruiser to one of those fleets, after ignoring the handler’s orders to retreat. What can I say? I am somewhat unwilling to back down in these situations. Fortunately, that fleet stuck around long enough for me to bring heavier ordnance to bear. There were no survivors. As for our forces trying to liberate more in Amarr space, yes of course they are. Federation and Republic forces are as active in Amarr space as the slavers are in ours, and both of these activities have been going on since long before any of us became capsuleers. Doesn’t matter which side you’re on in this regard, if you pretend there’s ever been peace between our people after the Day of Darkness, you’re a blatant liar and quite a bit of an asshole for knowingly perpetuating that bullcrap. One thing I can say for sure, I’ve never seen Aldieboo or any of the people claiming these are criminals taking on these slaver fleets, any more than they’ll have seen me taking on freedom fighters in theirs. Words don’t seem to match action in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/40 "2017-11-01T17:18:33Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > Mostly what I’ve seen is what the Amarr do when they find out about it. That is, typically, do something about it. I don’t think Lord Consort Newelle is lying when he talks about shooting them himself. > > (I think that was what he said?) No, what you’ve seen is what _an_ Amarr capsuleer does when _he_ finds out about it, unless you’re talking about more than just Aldrith. Just like you: he’s not in the Navy’s chain of command. He doesn’t know what their orders are. For all their posturing and wealth, Aldrith and Mitara have as much _actual_ influence on the policies of the Empire as a gnat in Luminaire might. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666.md?page=3)