# An interesting idea of ending Minmatar-Amarr conflict **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 1, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666 "2017-11-01T03:19:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 12:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/523 "2017-12-01T12:47:14Z")
> [@Ravana\_729](#): > > You’re not addressing idiots Tannia, I think everyone here, including the Amarrians can see such a blatantly simple “problem.” My pointing out this obvious problem shouldn’t offend you. This is what you do in rational discourse. I was polite and didn’t say anything offensive nor do I think you’re idiots, I just think you’re wrong. > [@Ravana\_729](#): > > What you seem to fail to understand completely is that the Amarrians have had first hand evidence for God for thousands upon thousands of years. Why has this stopped? I mean since the advent of electronic recording devices, has anybody been able to get recordings of their respective deities, let alone the Amarr and their god? Are you saying their evidence is their book, or is in it? Has that evidence ever been independently verified by third parties? How do we know that the Amarrian accounts are true? > [@Ravana\_729](#): > > Not only do they have evidence for whatever God is, those of us who are paying attention to whatever the hell the Amarrians are doing have evidence for whatever God is. Oh good then you should have no problem proving it to a doubting, non Amarrian like me. Or perhaps believing requires slavery to either condition my mind to accept what my reason won’t without good evidence, or at least get valuable labour out of even if I don’t? > [@Ravana\_729](#): > > This simple grunt and point double action of condemning the Amarrians for having old-fashioned “outdated” beliefs isn’t helping anyone and in the end, it’s actually fairly primitive thinking in and of itself. Asking for evidence for extraordinary claims isn’t primative thinking, its the basis of scientific inquiry. You know, the way us primative screwheads reached the stars independently of the Amarr and had interstellar nations before they even met us. > [@Ravana\_729](#): > > they have the nicest piece of real estate in the cluster, t I don’t care, this speaks nothing to the god claim. > [@Ravana\_729](#): > > they have a culture that has stood the test of time. The Jovians, who I actually have some authority to speak on, took up many of the same beliefs the anti-Amarrians hold today - they adhered to science alone, fact, even abandoning dialecticism to a point and look where it got them. You’re repeating a fallacy called known as Appeal to Ancient Wisdom to support the Amarrian culture and achievements while simultaneously writing off scientific inquiry as ancient wisdom. The mental gymnastics involved are astounding and yet we still see no verifiable evidence of the Amarrian god. The fact that the Jove are dying of in no way validates Amarrian claims or their god beliefs. Tying the two together like that is disingenuous, no matter how knowledgeable you might be on the Jove. > [@Ravana\_729](#): > > “Surround yourself with the faithful, Stand together, for there is no strength like it under the heavens.” Surround yourself with people who think the same, already believe the same things and reinforce these beliefs no matter what. Sounds like an echo chamber. > [@Ravana\_729](#): > > they think there is something magical taking place behind the scenes. Every time, when people have written some phenomenon off as magic, science has shown us it isn’t, even showing that the reality is more amazing than our magic make believe. > [@Ravana\_729](#): > > Maybe this is a physics we just don’t understand, There have been discoveries of new physics throughout the history of science. No scientist, worthy of being a scientist, would say that science knows all there is to know. If we knew everything there’d be no need for science. > [@Ravana\_729](#): > > and maybe a belief in a common great god who is specifically almighty (not merely a tribal god who controls one or another aspect of universe, as these seem to fail consistently) is the key to unlocking this hidden potential of Man. Conjecture, and the Amarrian god is in the same boat until you can demonstrate otherwise. Be it pantheism, monotheism or deism they all currently lack in the evidence department. And you’ve yet to bring any to the table either just more claims and conjecture. > [@Ravana\_729](#): > > I am not interested in seeing a one-god universe, unless that God is somehow intimately connected with the diversity of Mankind. Any God that is separate from humans would be a remarkably boring God and a society that would ultimately lead to all kinds of brutality as we have seen with the Amarrians. I am interested in better ideas of God and what God might ultimately turn out to be, and that’s something no one is really looking at. You’d reject a deistic god because you are more comfortable with a personal god, or at least a god more personal than the Amarrian god. That’s nice, it doesn’t prove anything, or bring evidence of a god to the table though. It does sound like an admission that your belief in a god is more to satisfy some emotional need then any active pursuit of truth or knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfgang\_Jannesen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wolfgang_jannesen/32/496726_2.png) [@Wolfgang\_Jannesen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wolfgang_Jannesen)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/524 "2017-12-01T12:52:31Z")
I have no doubt that you’d love to censor this discussion but the state doesn’t have that jurisdiction here. Where Amarr will shove their fingers in their ears and scream prayers, the Caldari will just shoot you and lose your body amongst a bunch of paperwork. There’s not a lot to be proud about on either side. ---
**Author:** ![Ravana\_729](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ravana_729/32/55540_2.png) [@Ravana\_729](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ravana_729)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 1:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/525 "2017-12-01T13:26:20Z")
My interest in the Amarrian beliefs and stronger understanding of their methodology and mystery in no way inspires me to assist you in understanding the possibilities there. You’re not ready for that kind of advanced thinking. You don’t have the capacity to understand my interest in the advanced sort of synergy of seemingly disparate physical phenomenon and laws that might fully explain whatever this God is. And it’s no logical fallacy, since I stated before the Amarrians are not merely ancient, they are powerful, both earlier and beyond many of the Empires, sometimes by vast expanses of time, and they have been religious since their beginning. Better go check your chart on logical fallacies again. Between responding to every individual line and the logical fallacy chart-o-matic response, I find you as dogmatic as the Amarrians. You have a lazy grasp of thought and appear to have no ability to even read what I wrote. I would never be able to begin to explain to you why I and others like me are interested in this sort of thing. Those who are are busy working on these mysteries, they’re not doing busywork trying to change the tide as it moves, instead we’re engaged in an aggressive dialogue with nature itself, as my teachers at the Kibbutz used to say… Whatever is going on with the Amarrians is a part of Nature, and I think it would be obvious by now that we don’t know as much about Nature as even the Drifters do…and in some ways, since they are still alive…the Amarrians know more about Nature than the Jovians did… Now who was screaming prayers? Was it Aldrith Shutaq? ---
**Author:** ![Wolfgang\_Jannesen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wolfgang_jannesen/32/496726_2.png) [@Wolfgang\_Jannesen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wolfgang_Jannesen)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/526 "2017-12-01T13:28:31Z")
Believe me, I get it. I was raised in Gallente space but my parents were Ni-Kunni and kept to the faith. I’d just disregard it as entirely unimportant and treat the Amarr empire as the political machination it is, rather than hiding behind the veil of faith to justify any course of action. I’m not ignorant but I’m not complicit with disgusting ideals and that makes me a dissident. ---
**Author:** ![Ravana\_729](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ravana_729/32/55540_2.png) [@Ravana\_729](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ravana_729)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 1:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/527 "2017-12-01T13:30:45Z")
Ideals are overrated…in the end there is only Nature, and if we’re bold enough and clever enough, a complete understanding of Nature. ---
**Author:** ![Halcyon\_Ember](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/halcyon_ember/32/131702_2.png) [@Halcyon\_Ember](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Halcyon_Ember)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/528 "2017-12-01T13:48:00Z")
What are you even trying to suggest with this? Nothing matters? Do unto others as nature dictates? What? ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/529 "2017-12-01T14:11:17Z")
> [@Ravana\_729](#): > > You’re not ready for that kind of advanced thinking. You don’t have the capacity to understand my interest in the advanced sort of synergy of seemingly disparate physical phenomenon and laws that might fully explain whatever this God is. The problem is me, not your weak arguments. Is that what you are saying? > [@Ravana\_729](#): > > And it’s no logical fallacy, since I stated before the Amarrians are not merely ancient, they are powerful, both earlier and beyond many of the Empires, sometimes by vast expanses of time, and they have been religious since their beginning. Better go check your chart on logical fallacies again. [Appeal to Ancient Wisdom](https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/44/Appeal_to_Tradition) > Description: Using historical preferences of the people (tradition), either in general or as specific as the historical preferences of a single individual, as evidence that the historical preference is correct. Traditions are often passed from generation to generation with no other explanation besides, “this is the way it has always been done”—which \>s not a reason, it is an absence of a reason." Yes it is. The Amarrians, being among the first to the stars AND being religious, doesn’t prove anything. The Gallente also achieved it, albeit shortly after, and under different conditions. Also, the Federation economy was, and is, stronger than the Amarrian economy and the Caldari have the busiest trading hub. You’ve already written off the Jove because they’re dying off, as if this is sufficient reason to do so. Yet they predate the Amarr and crushed the Amarr in battle, so I can see why you need to dismiss them. > [@Ravana\_729](#): > > Between responding to every individual line and the logical fallacy chart-o-matic response, I find you as dogmatic as the Amarrians. If you don’t want to be called out for errors in your thinking then try to formulate your thoughts better. Being called out for fallacious arguments isn’t dogma, it’s an opportunity for you to revise your arguments so they’re not fallacious, or honourably withdraw them. Doubling down and calling it dogma just looks foolish. > [@Ravana\_729](#): > > You have a lazy grasp of thought and appear to have no ability to even read what I wrote. If I misrepresented you then I apologize. Please tell me what you’ve said that I’ve misrepresented. Then we look at it together and I’ll try to get it right before I state my opinion on it. Fair enough? > [@Ravana\_729](#): > > Those who are are busy working on these mysteries, they’re not doing busywork trying to change the tide as it moves, instead we’re engaged in an aggressive dialogue with nature itself, Is it science, or this something beyond science you referenced earlier? > [@Ravana\_729](#): > > Whatever is going on with the Amarrians is a part of Nature That goes without saying, don’t you think? We’re all part of nature and everything we do is part of nature. Don’t you agree? You also yet to produce the evidence you say that the Amarr have. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 2:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/530 "2017-12-01T14:25:15Z")
Further, I only invoked one fallacy, and in all cases I tried to explain where I thought you got it wrong. The fallacy chart-o-matic comment of yours is dubious, at best. Also, I didn’t say anything about screaming prayers. You’ve confused me with someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Ravana\_729](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ravana_729/32/55540_2.png) [@Ravana\_729](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ravana_729)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/531 "2017-12-01T21:26:53Z")
Holy Minmottas, you really do have a problem not speaking down your noses to god-damned _everyone_ all the time, don’t you? Hardly any of your diatribe has anything to do with me, so I’ll just allow you to pretend you’re actually talking or addressing anything real…I have a battleship to attend to. ---
**Author:** ![Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pieter_tuulinen/32/155371_2.png) [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pieter_Tuulinen)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/532 "2017-12-01T21:47:28Z")
We do NOT lose our bodies. We carefully record where all of them were sent to become useful biomass. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/533 "2017-12-01T22:18:54Z")
> [@Ravana\_729](#): > > Holy Minmottas, you really do have a problem not speaking down your noses to god-damned everyone all the time, don’t you? I only have one nose. Really. > [@Ravana\_729](#): > > Hardly any of your diatribe has anything to do with me Diatribe? It was hardly that. I wasn’t bitter or abusive and only a little bit sarcastic. You mean boys don’t like it when girls are sarcastic? Oh… I’m also curious who’s points I was addressing if not yours? > [@Ravana\_729](#): > > so I’ll just allow you to pretend you’re actually talking or addressing anything real _I_ thought you were real. > [@Ravana\_729](#): > > I have a battleship to attend to. Okay. Bai! ---
**Author:** ![Slayer\_Liberator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/slayer_liberator/32/398086_2.png) [@Slayer\_Liberator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Slayer_Liberator)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 5:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/534 "2017-12-02T05:30:58Z")
If he demonstrated his godhood then people would believe him. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 2:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/535 "2017-12-03T02:57:19Z")
> [@Slayer\_Liberator](#): > > If he demonstrated his godhood then people would believe him. No, they wouldn’t. The religion in God is a belief, and such belief can’t be tested by experiment. Humans are not machines, we want to know more that we are capable of, that’s why we need beliefs to imagine things that we can’t study. And if the godhood will be demonstrated, it won’t be a belief anymore. It will be knowledge. People would not believe him. People would know that. ---
**Author:** ![Terralynn\_Khanid](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/terralynn_khanid/32/41977_2.png) [@Terralynn\_Khanid](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Terralynn_Khanid)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/536 "2017-12-05T00:01:18Z")
Oh please… ‘these people’ are just uppity since they have to fly around in garbage cans all day. Ignore them, and move on to more important things. They pose no real threat. The REAL threat is the Jovian scum that has plagued New Eden for far too long. We should focus on enslaving them more so than the Minmatar dogs. They have already proven to be… insufficient as slaves. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/537 "2017-12-05T00:17:12Z")
Gosh, careful with that edge. Might cut yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Terralynn\_Khanid](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/terralynn_khanid/32/41977_2.png) [@Terralynn\_Khanid](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Terralynn_Khanid)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 12:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/538 "2017-12-05T00:26:25Z")
Your concern has been noted. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/539 "2017-12-05T00:48:31Z")
Ma’am, the status of Jove is currently unknown. They might be all dead, or just locked behind the gates that are still shut down, their place in CONCORD was taken by SOCT, as far as I know, and I have no idea how one can fight them. On the other hand, Minmatar Republic still attacks Amarr Empire, launches their kidnapping raids, terrorizes, murders and does other their usual stuff. The war with them is still goes on, for nine years already. D. Kim, Strike Cmdr., SPROT, CMC, Caldari State ---
**Author:** ![Slayer\_Liberator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/slayer_liberator/32/398086_2.png) [@Slayer\_Liberator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Slayer_Liberator)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/540 "2017-12-05T16:02:02Z")
Didn’t you try that already? If memory serves, you failed horribly. So, what makes you think that you can do it this time around in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/541 "2017-12-05T16:06:41Z")
> [@Slayer\_Liberator](#): > > , what makes you think that you can do it this time around in the first place? Faith…or insanity? Your pick. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/542 "2017-12-06T15:02:16Z")
> [@Halcyon\_Ember](#): > > Edit: I feel I’m starting to sound like a concise version of Arrendis Drink more. That feeling goes away right about the time you stop being able to feel your toes. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666.md?page=26) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666.md?page=28)