# An interesting idea of ending Minmatar-Amarr conflict **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 1, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666 "2017-11-01T03:19:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 10:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/121 "2017-11-04T10:23:14Z")
> [@kul\_Shaishi](#): > > Kim please go in and exile yourself into Null sec No, anti-state propagandist. You won’t be able to weaken our State by removing pilots with your pathetic propaganda attempts. Go back from where you have crawled out and stop poisoning forums with your hatred. D. Kim, Strike Commander, State Protectorate, CMC, Caldari State ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 10:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/122 "2017-11-04T10:32:22Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > There is another option. > > The Amarr could just go ahead and enslave the Caldari. > > The Caldari should be totally ok with that, and then the war between the Amarr and Minmatar could end. > > Peace all around. You do realize, that from all four Empires: Minmatars, Amarr, Gallente and Caldari, it were only Caldari who never developed slavery through the course of our history. And you do know, why? Becasue we prefer to die with honor in combat than surrendering to enemy to become servants like Minmatars. Gallente tried to subjugate us, but we have won our independence in a long and bloody war. And Amarr don’t have to subjugate us, because both we and them are people of Honor, and we are allies in this cluster, who will fight for each other and cover our backs. Not speaking that Amarr Empire does not enslave anyone currently except criminals and PoWs. On the other hand, I don’t see how this “proposition” even can be considered relevant, how it possible can finish the war, since it doesn’t affect even in tiniest bit the agressor - the Minmatars. The status quo in the conflict will remain the same. Amarr will have their slavery. And Minmatars will be same angry bullies, who will keep attacking the Empire just because they have it. Nothing will change. Your idea is logically inconsistent in both places, first - because Amarr will not enslave Caldari, and second - such enslavement will not change Amarr-Minmatar conflict in the slightest. D. Kim, Strike Commander, State Protectorate, CMC, Caldari State ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 10:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/123 "2017-11-04T10:45:43Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > I can’t understand why you’d worship, let alone believe, in such a monster Within the religious belief, the God has created the world and everyone who lives in, so disregarding your own narrow moral principles and whether they correspond to moral principles of the God or not (according to your idea - they are in opposite, since you claimed a God to be a monster), you should be at least grateful to the God for everything you have. So if you do believe in the God according to religious belief you expected to worship Him… just to not be an ungrateful swine. As for the believing part, any narrow moral principle shall not (and can not) be a measure of belief in a phenomenon. Morals are human constructs, and can vary greatly, while existence of things or their absence does not depend on any moral. The religion though is a human constructs as well, but it is a consequence of a belief (or disbelief) in God. (I consider Atheism a religion as well). We cannot test for sure if the God exists or not (and which of Gods does exist), but we can absolutely be sure that existence of God does not depend on any moral principles, as existence (or absence) of the God is universal constant, and morality is just relative and peculiar to human being or small human society. There were, however, debate whether moralities can be absolute, and, unfortunately, I’ve lost that one. But I can claim for sure that your moralities are definitely relative, since you call the God a monster, and half of the cluster consider him being ultimate ‘Good’. D. Kim, Strike Commander, State Protectorate, CMC, Caldari State ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 10:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/124 "2017-11-04T10:50:40Z")
> [@Matthias\_Ancaladron](#): > > Why would amarr end slavery? The conflict will naturally end when every matari is back in chains where they belong and every matari world has been sacked and brought back under the thumb of a pure throne. > > The minmatar are the ones commiting a sin under the eyes of God by refusing to accept their rightful place. They must atone for this sin. Mr. Ancaladron, I would like to point one more time, that the idea was to NOT consider Amarr ending anything or changing their way. It wasn’t about enslaving Minmatars either (though I consider it a viable solution of Minmatar problem and that will stop the war. And, moreover, I am pretty sure that to realize this scenario you will have to defeat the Republic first by military conquest… which by itself could end the war without enslaving Minmatars). It was about convincing Republic to legalize slavery, so they wouldn’t call you slavers and wouldn’t attack you anymore. D. Kim, Strike Commander, State Protectorate, CMC, Caldari State ---
**Author:** ![Lasairiona\_Raske](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lasairiona_raske/32/467893_2.png) [@Lasairiona\_Raske](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lasairiona_Raske)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 11:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/125 "2017-11-04T11:04:21Z")
Can I start signing my posts with my credentials? ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 11:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/126 "2017-11-04T11:31:56Z")
> [@Lasairiona\_Raske](#): > > Can I start signing my posts with my credentials? Sure, why not. Her Excellency, Generalissimo For Life, Supreme Commander, Fleet Marshall, General Secretary for Achuran Education, Standing Member of the People’s Presidium, Professor Emeritus of Caldari Animation, Veikitamo “Gesakaarin” Kurovassi, M.Sci., LLB., Lord of all the avocados in the trees and bread in the toasters, conqueror of the Gallente Federation in Essence in general and Heydieles in particular. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfgang\_Jannesen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wolfgang_jannesen/32/496726_2.png) [@Wolfgang\_Jannesen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wolfgang_Jannesen)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 11:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/127 "2017-11-04T11:42:15Z")
Yeah no, this is turning into a kindergarten level discussion just with fancier and fancier made up assignments added to the end of your sign-off. This thread oughtta be locked now before more high ranking Caldari feel like they need to give their 0.2isk ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/128 "2017-11-04T11:43:52Z")
You dare insult Caldari officer? ---
**Author:** ![Wolfgang\_Jannesen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wolfgang_jannesen/32/496726_2.png) [@Wolfgang\_Jannesen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wolfgang_Jannesen)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 11:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/129 "2017-11-04T11:47:58Z")
All day every day, but it’s only going to fill this thread up with 50 more completely unrelated posts. ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/130 "2017-11-04T11:56:13Z")
> [@Wolfgang\_Jannesen](#): > > All day every day, but it’s only going to fill this thread up with 50 more completely unrelated posts. You sound like a troll and liar, then. ---
**Author:** ![Lasairiona\_Raske](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lasairiona_raske/32/467893_2.png) [@Lasairiona\_Raske](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lasairiona_Raske)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 12:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/131 "2017-11-04T12:15:32Z")
How dare you post here? Go back to where you came from and stop poisoning the forums. ---
**Author:** ![Lasairiona\_Raske](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lasairiona_raske/32/467893_2.png) [@Lasairiona\_Raske](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lasairiona_Raske)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 12:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/132 "2017-11-04T12:21:56Z")
Oh! I have a [bingo](https://i.imgur.com/nbwCnTo.jpg)! ---
**Author:** ![Aradina\_Varren](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aradina_varren/32/398702_2.png) [@Aradina\_Varren](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aradina_Varren)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 12:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/133 "2017-11-04T12:26:09Z")
Down with this sort of thing. Aradina Varren the Titleless. ---
**Author:** ![Lasairiona\_Raske](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lasairiona_raske/32/467893_2.png) [@Lasairiona\_Raske](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lasairiona_Raske)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 12:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/134 "2017-11-04T12:54:03Z")
> [@Aradina\_Varren](#): > > Aradina Varren the Titleless. Shouldn’t it be Aradina Varren of the Bag Mask? ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/136 "2017-11-04T14:05:56Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > disregarding your own narrow moral principles and whether they correspond to moral principles of the God or not (according to your idea - they are in opposite, since you claimed a God to be a monster), you should be at least grateful to the God for everything you have. So if you do believe in the God according to religious belief you expected to worship Him… just to not be an ungrateful swine. Yes, my morals are narrow enough that I abhor slavery. I’m okay with that. > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > The religion though is a human constructs as well, but it is a consequence of a belief (or disbelief) in God. (I consider Atheism a religion as well). I don’t define myself by what I don’t believe and I try not to believe in things that I don’t have good reason to. Lots of people claim to believe, or disbelieve, in all sorts of things. So, what is belief? > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > but we can absolutely be sure that existence of God does not depend on any moral principles, as existence (or absence) of the God is universal constant, and morality is just relative and peculiar to human being or small human society. My objection isn’t that the Amarr god doesn’t exist due to moral reasons, but if such a being exists is it even worthy of worship? Now, my use of the words “believe in” were probably a poor choice. A thing can exist despite one’s belief. It would have been better if I had said “have faith in.” > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Morals are human constructs, and can vary greatly, Yes, I agree. Again, I’m okay with that. Even if there is no absolute moral standard, and I don’t write that possibility out entirely, objectivity can be obtained by coming to a common consensus that all parties can agree as true, preferably based on verifiable evidence. > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > There were, however, debate whether moralities can be absolute, and, unfortunately, I’ve lost that one. Why regret losing a debate? It’s merely an opportunity to reflect, improve your arguments, or perhaps to change your mind. You can’t truly lose if you take it as a learning experience. > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > But I can claim for sure that your moralities are definitely relative, since you call the God a monster, and half of the cluster consider him being ultimate ‘Good’. Yes, I agree and I’m okay with my morals being relative. As for half of the cluster believing in the god I find objectionable, maybe. I personally know that the Intake have their gods. From this I infer that most of the cluster holds faith and believes in some god that is not the Amarr god. Taking this even further, since faith is a personal experience and I’ve seen Amarr theologians debate the nature of their god, I think it’s safe to assume that each Amarr believes in a slightly different god than their neighbour. > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > D. Kim, Strike Commander, > > State Protectorate, CMC, > > Caldari State Is military protocol required here? I thought the boards were meant to be informal. Should I be addressing you as Commander? ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 2:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/137 "2017-11-04T14:07:37Z")
My second post is a repaste of my deleted post. I had thought I had replied in the wrong topic. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/138 "2017-11-04T17:01:10Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > And Amarr don’t have to subjugate us, because both we and them are people of Honor, and we are allies in this cluster, who will fight for each other and cover our backs. > > Not speaking that Amarr Empire does not enslave anyone currently except criminals and PoWs. By Amarr standards, you _are_ a criminal, because you are not subservient to their God. And their God commands that they _do_ have to subjugate you. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/139 "2017-11-04T17:03:14Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > By Amarr standards, you are a criminal Nah, not really. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/140 "2017-11-04T17:32:15Z")
Scripture, Aldieboo. It is pretty clear on the subject. Unless of course you’re willing to forgo that tripe and use reason. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666/141 "2017-11-04T17:57:49Z")
Do not presume to tell me what my own faith tells me. We grant entry visas to non-believers and leave them in peace within our own borders all the time. To be a non-believer is not criminal, it’s just a separate status. Otherwise, I suppose we should start rounding up the trillions here on work, tourist and diplomatic visas. Oh, wait. We don’t do that. I wonder why that is? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-interesting-idea-of-ending-minmatar-amarr-conflict/35666.md?page=8)