# An old article about ideas UO and Crowfall developer in PVP **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 29, 2019, 1:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925 "2019-09-29T01:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/42 "2019-10-01T19:22:39Z")
> [@LlamaDrama](#): > > Hi-sec is less safe than it has been for many years. Gankers are many and they have mastered their trade. You’re lucky to autopilot a t1 fit battlship through hi-sec now without a ganker group desperate for kills deciding to blow you up. The fact that they’re now attacking such worthless targets goes to highlight how dire the situation has become. Evidence where? ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/43 "2019-10-01T20:07:50Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > Why don’t you just go play some other space game if there mere existence of PvP bothers you so much? It’s weird how many of the “PvP is the only way!” crowd seem to have really poor reading comprehension. I mean, in the very post you replied to I say “The design of EVE means that PvP needs to be integrated into the game throughout, and encouraged, and enabled.” So much for “the mere existence of PvP bothers me”. That plus the fact that many of my posts say we need more, better, more accessible PvP. But oh well, I guess any crowd that identifies “hunting noobs in safe space is lame” as _hate speech_ are going to have difficulty processing anything they read that doesn’t match their “only PvP is good” filters. Perhaps you think EVE is awesome and wonderful and the only problem is that so many players are weak and stupid and can’t handle the game so they leave. My own view is that EVE is poorly designed for both PvE and PvP, and players are mostly leaving (or not joining in the first place) because EVE is not providing a good overall gaming experience to most PvEr’s **or** most PvPers. My view is that EVE could do better on both fronts. Sorry if that gets your panties in a knot. Guess you’ll just have to deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/44 "2019-10-01T20:18:53Z")
Stopped reading at the personal insult. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 10:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/45 "2019-10-01T22:45:58Z")
Selfish people who don’t PvP but come to a PvP game and try to change it into something else. Talk about your special snowflakes. ---
**Author:** ![LlamaDrama](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/llamadrama/32/153423_2.png) [@LlamaDrama](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/LlamaDrama)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 2:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/46 "2019-10-02T02:18:18Z")
EVE is not a “pvp game” Call of Duty is a pvp game. EVE is an MMORPG featuring pvp. One can play and enjoy EVE without enjoying pvp or seeking to take part in pvp. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 2:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/47 "2019-10-02T02:24:54Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Selfish people who don’t PvP but come to a PvP game and try to change it into something else. > > Talk about your special snowflakes. The special snowflakes are the ones who keep thinking that a game where every MER ever released shows 4x as much PvE happening as PvP, and where CCP’s own statistics say about 15% of players PvP, and where 70% of the population lives in high sec… is a “PvP game”. As Llama said, this is a mostly PvE MMORPG that has a bit more emphasis than usual on PvP. It would also be interesting to see you point out any messages in this thread attempting to change EVE into “not a PvP game”. I’d call ‘special snowflakes’ the ones who see things that aren’t there, but think they’re right anyway. PS: For the hard of reading - because I point out the way the PvE/PvP balance in EVE _is_, does not mean that’s the way I think it _should be_. EVE is simply designed poorly for it’s own stated objectives. If you want more PvP, design for it. It’s as simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Andre\_Matar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andre_matar/32/296078_2.png) [@Andre\_Matar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andre_Matar)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 5:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/48 "2019-10-02T05:32:52Z")
> [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > I’m playing a HateSpeech detector today, > finding both bad people and those who pretend they’re good people! 😊 Is that because you are a wonderful human being, yourself? Ye of impure heart, can make no demands of purity on those that are better than yourself. Sorry, that’s not how it works. ---
**Author:** ![BOINGBOINGBOINGBOING\_BOINGOBBLEOI](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/boingboingboingboing_boingobbleoi/32/203433_2.png) [@BOINGBOINGBOINGBOING\_BOINGOBBLEOI](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/BOINGBOINGBOINGBOING_BOINGOBBLEOI)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 7:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/49 "2019-10-02T07:36:26Z")
Given all the ideas on the forums, some of them good, I get an impression of CCP. It’s just one guy that reads the forums, and for 2 minutes a week he sums up the players thoughts to his superiors. 2 minutes might be generous though. Nah it couldn’t take 2 minutes. 2 sentences. And then on the other hand, they gave us that skilling spree poll and then they acted on it. That makes me wonder. Maybe they’ll balance the new skilling spree bonus with something truly awful, just to keep us on our toes. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 7:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/50 "2019-10-02T07:49:33Z")
> [@LlamaDrama](#): > > EVE is not a “pvp game” Call of Duty is a pvp game. > > EVE is an MMORPG featuring pvp. One can play and enjoy EVE without enjoying pvp or seeking to take part in pvp. No my dear. EVE is a PvP sandbox at it’s core. EVERYTHING even the few repetitive and boring PvE elements are designed around players competing with each other at all times in various forms (not just direct ship combat). ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/51 "2019-10-02T14:18:08Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > and where CCP’s own statistics say about 15% of players PvP Source? ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/52 "2019-10-02T14:44:13Z")
You live in a fantasy world, which is okay. I live in the real world. In the real world I understand that … irrational, unfounded, non-sensical and generalised attacks against a tiny group of people, a minority, who does nothing wrong and actually plays exactly as intended … … is HateSpeech. They make no difference between the individuals of the group. They lump them all into the same bucket. Feel free to live in your fantasy world, where you probably believe you’re a good person. I don’t believe I’m a good person. I also don’t believe I’m a bad person either. In reality I don’t give a single flying ■■■■ about that at all, because such thoughts only matters to _assholes_ who usually believe to be good, while they’re actually _really, really bad_. Feel free to spend seconds about a philosophical topic I’ve spent years with, and don’t forget to make sure to show me how much more you know about this than I do. I love you. 🙂 \*_hugs\*_ ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 3:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/53 "2019-10-02T15:15:33Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > > and where CCP’s own statistics say about 15% of players PvP > > Source? [Player Activty - CCP Quant](https://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68738/1/activity.16.png) > [@Xuixien](#): > > Stopped reading at the personal insult. It’s funny how when you quote someone else and _edit their words_ to imply you’re smart and they’re dumb: > [@Minmatar/Amarr Warzone : No more agents, no more farming](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-amarr-warzone-no-more-agents-no-more-farming/193458/18): > > Anyway no use talking to you : you are twisting basic facts of FW to serve your arguments since obviously you have a beef with U’K. Let other people ask questions. > [@Minmatar/Amarr Warzone : No more agents, no more farming](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-amarr-warzone-no-more-agents-no-more-farming/193458/19): > > compared to when I was in FW. > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/9/9/99f0d24c29f4ce9db13f82efba6fa8f392704673.jpeg) Strepan\_Dorsett: > > > Anyway no use talking to you : you are a better logician than I am and you’re using phrases I don’t understand. > > TTFW. that is apparently the “cogent and reasoned argument of a superior logician”. But when I point out that your reading comprehension could use work when you _clearly_ and _obviously_ either did not read, did not understand, or read and understood but ignored anyway in order to make a straw-man attack, that is a personal insult? A bit thin-skinned for a “HTFU and PvP or GTFO” type, don’t you think? I guess there’s a type of person who only engages when the other person is unlikely to shoot back. I guess a lot of those people come to EVE to PvP, and hang out in high sec where it’s safe for them to do so while they pretend they’re badass PvPers. When I disapprove of any PvP, that is the style I disapprove of. I don’t even say it’s invalid or that it shouldn’t be in EVE. Just that it is an unsustainable type of PvP to base much of a game on. EVE needs more and better designed PvP, not constant cries for weak easy targets in safe space. Your own killboard shows that you personally only occasionally indulge in shooting fish in a barrel in high sec, and that you are more than capable at PvP in actually risky regions. So it’s odd that you get so sensitive about calls for better and more interesting PvP, and less abusive and game-cannibalizing PvP. Perhaps you need to look at the bigger picture? ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/54 "2019-10-02T15:19:20Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > As Llama said, this is a mostly PvE MMORPG that has a bit more emphasis than usual on PvP. Stop smoking that, it kills brain cells. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/55 "2019-10-02T15:22:14Z")
> [@LlamaDrama](#): > > EVE is not a “pvp game” Keep telling yourself that, like the 1000s who have come before. In 6 months you will quit for some other Merry Go Round and we will still be here PvPing. Fish from the River Fodder. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/56 "2019-10-02T15:38:41Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Player Activty - CCP Quant Ok so I guess EVE is a warp market game. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/57 "2019-10-02T16:36:57Z")
Excuse me, but the fact that there are over four million gate jumps DAILY … … DAILY … … means that it’s a travelling game. I win this thread. You’re all dismissed. 😊 ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/58 "2019-10-02T17:23:38Z")
> [@LlamaDrama](#): > > One can play and enjoy EVE without enjoying pvp or seeking to take part in pvp. You’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/59 "2019-10-02T17:44:03Z")
The easy way to prove that point is a hunt 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/60 "2019-10-02T18:12:56Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > In 6 months you will quit for some other Merry Go Round and we will still be here PvPing. Surely you mean “sitting in forums talking big about PvP but never actually doing it”, since that’s what your actual PvP record is. > [@Xuixien](#): > > Ok so I guess EVE is a warp market game. 🙄 It’s kinda sad when you ask for verification of data, and when the data doesn’t show what you want, you try to deflect it with irrelevancy. The fact that PvP is a _minority activity_ in EVE, the fact it takes an inordinate amount of boring warp travel to get most things done, and the fact that there is 4x as much PvE going on as conflict is simply an indicator of bad design. And when somebody comes along and says “EVE really needs to be designed better to provide more PvP” your response is “if you hate PvP so much go away!”. Really? That’s some superior logician work right there I guess. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > No my dear. EVE is a PvP sandbox at it’s core. EVERYTHING even the few repetitive and boring PvE elements are designed around players competing with each other Then clearly, there is no shortage of PvP in high sec, and everyone doing anything at all in high already _is_ PvPing. So all your complaints about the safety and ‘carebears’ of high sec become rather meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/61 "2019-10-02T18:15:47Z")
I’m just following your argument to it’s conclusion. EVE is not a PvP game because only 13% of players PvPed. It is a travel and trade simulator since almost everyone is warping, docking, and using the market. EDIT: I have to admit I don’t read your entire posts, just quick skimming. You sound like a very indignant person and reading the soapboxing hurts my eyes. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925.md?page=4)