# An old article about ideas UO and Crowfall developer in PVP **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 29, 2019, 1:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925 "2019-09-29T01:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 8:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/133 "2019-10-06T08:38:38Z")
> [@Rekindle](#): > > The difference in eve is the Eve dev team wants mining ships to move to null to more or less eject / be stationary targets for the the elite pvp that rolls through. Bollocks. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 8:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/134 "2019-10-06T08:39:54Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Industrial class ships including miners have been designed as targets Bollocks ---
**Author:** ![Rekindle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rekindle/32/382332_2.png) [@Rekindle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rekindle)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 10:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/135 "2019-10-06T10:19:22Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > Bollocks You add no intellectual value to the conversation by your off topic responses. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 10:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/136 "2019-10-06T10:57:23Z")
> [@Rekindle](#): > > You add no intellectual value to the conversation by your off topic responses. He got the right value for his post. It is very on topic. ---
**Author:** ![Geoscape](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geoscape/32/167291_2.png) [@Geoscape](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geoscape)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 5:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/137 "2019-10-06T17:16:10Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Maybe you are just bad at fitting ships. But never mind, so am I, but I just quickly threw this together and got something like: > DPS 414, 614m/s, 270 EHP/s, 46k EHP > > Screenshot of pyfa fit > > ![battle_skiff_001.png](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/1/11c47cd525de5f024c7b2b131a96f84119eee07b.png) > > Oh and that is a super cheap fit without any implants yet. So if you really care we can optimize it and surpass that HAC. Notice how it is still able to mine? It only has t1 strips, but you can easily make that t2 with implants. > > And now please explain how defenseless does that look to you? The Skiff is literally at the point that it can no longer be buffed or it will outclass the combat ships of it’s size. > > Now let’s watch the excuses. That Skiff gets soloed by a caracal. Hell, even a cormorant can squish that thing after killing the expensive drones from a safe distance. It has no escapes of any kind, no ability to clear tackle (2.77 km/s drone top speed pffft), no meaningful tank and it doesn’t mine very much. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/138 "2019-10-06T18:25:51Z")
Do you think it is somehow news that you will find a cheaper counter to every setup? Also again, that was just a quick demonstration that shows that the mining ships aren’t as defenseless as some here try to make it look like. Also there is still room for two more fleets of light drones. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/139 "2019-10-06T18:26:47Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Go read what people like @Kezrai_Charzai say in this thread. She is clearly opposed to non-consensual PvP, which means 100% safety in highsec. Karak you really need to stop making up pretend-arguments to debate with the imaginary carebears in your head so you can reap pretend-tears while you pretend you’re being relevant. I _observed_ that data, facts, and industry experts point out that non-consensual PvP, particularly in starter regions, is bad for the population growth and success of a game. I _pointed out_ that the population and activity levels of the PvP-wannabes, hiding in safe space so _they_ won’t get hunted by the _real_ Pvpers, is small enough that if they were removed, EVE would barely be affected. Those points are quite different than recommending elimination of non-con PvP from EVE. They are also quite different from asking for 100% safety in high sec. 100% safety in high sec is only required by pretend-PvPers like you because you haven’t the guts to face real PvP. What I actually _recommended_ was: > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > The design of EVE means that PvP needs to be integrated into the game throughout, and encouraged, and enabled. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > EVE’s base concept requires PvP, … > > EVE can be designed for **real** PvP. But only if CCP pulls their head out of their arse and stops listening to either the “make it safer!” crowd or the “bring back jetcanning!” crowd and actually learns how to design a game to support PvP in a manner that doesn’t cannibalize it’s own player base. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > If you want more PvP, design for it. It’s as simple as that. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > When I disapprove of any PvP, that is the style I disapprove of. I don’t even say it’s invalid or that it shouldn’t be in EVE. Just that it is an unsustainable type of PvP to base much of a game on. EVE needs more and better designed PvP and finally: > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Concord only covers rookie systems, career agent systems, trade hubs is the only recommendation or change I suggested. _No Concord - give players the tools to handle it._ If from all that the only thing you got is “Kezrai wants 100% safety in high sec” then you’ve been fighting pretend-PvP battles against weak opponents for far too long. (Note: in the following, ‘you’ refers to all the pretend-PvPers in high sec, not ‘you Karak’ specifically) I realize the concept of actually fighting against real PvPers is quite scary for you, and so you panic when people recommend ‘more and better PvP’ and start flailing about with made-up arguments. But don’t worry. When the game gets too rough for you, and the real PvPers keep blowing you up, with luck by then they’ll have some other game available where you can fight weak targets and pretend you’re tough. ---
**Author:** ![Geoscape](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geoscape/32/167291_2.png) [@Geoscape](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geoscape)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/140 "2019-10-06T18:56:44Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Do you think it is somehow news that you will find a cheaper counter to every setup? Also again, that was just a quick demonstration that shows that the mining ships aren’t as defenseless as some here try to make it look like. Also there is still room for two more fleets of light drones. Every combat ship in the game better than a T1 destroyer can reliably kill that Skiff. If that is the best that can be done with the barges then they have no meaningful survivability regardless of what space you are in. If they had the capabilities of a Dominix then things would be different. I have a crabfit Domi that cost about the same, makes more money and can take on most of the solo pwn-mobiles out there. ---
**Author:** ![LlamaDrama](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/llamadrama/32/153423_2.png) [@LlamaDrama](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/LlamaDrama)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/141 "2019-10-06T19:05:27Z")
Oh look, another new group of 20+ gankers killing random passerbys. > **[Charon | kazuto hara | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/79269195/)** > > kazuto hara (State War Academy) lost their Charon in Aufay (Sinq Laison). Final Blow by Drake Durandal (Astra Solace) flying in a Catalyst. Total Value: 1,934,039,778.45 ISK They’re ganking freighters and such in Aufay. That’s on top of Hellhouse, who are doing similar ganks in Sivala. And you can add that to the constantly ganked Niarja. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/142 "2019-10-06T19:30:05Z")
> [@Geoscape](#): > > Every combat ship in the game better than a T1 destroyer can reliably kill that Skiff. I highly doubt that. > [@Geoscape](#): > > If that is the best that can be done with the barges then they have no meaningful survivability regardless of what space you are in. Again, it was just a quick fit I trew together to show how the stats can go into similar ranges than a HAC. I’m sure we can do better for an actual fit. The point was those ships are not defenseless and can actually shoot back. ---
**Author:** ![Geoscape](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geoscape/32/167291_2.png) [@Geoscape](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geoscape)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/143 "2019-10-06T20:28:27Z")
The entire lineup of assault frigates can outpace or outtank the drones long enough to kill them and have enough dps to crack the tank. From experience with VNIs and domis i can tell that medium drones don’t apply well enough to assault frigates and light drones just won’t cut the mustard. Cruiser brawlers have every advantage while kitey cruisers can kill the drones while being able to disengage at will. There is very little that can be done about the Skiff fit aside from dispensing with the mining lasers, PG rigs and AB in favor of neuts/nos, resist rigs and a web. At best you end up with a ship that is inferior to an arbitrator and only good for baiting bads in T1 frig/dessie brawler fits. Edit: You may be able to squeeze high numbers from a mining barge but it won’t be practical to use in lieu of a proper pvp ship nor will it be a good crab boat. It may have some defenses but its largely for show. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/144 "2019-10-06T21:12:55Z")
> [@Geoscape](#): > > It may have some defenses but its largely for show. It’s good enough that a blob of those things gets pretty scary. ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/145 "2019-10-07T02:35:37Z")
@Nevyn_Auscent and @Karak_Terrel, thank you for the explanation of hyper-dunking. It _does_ sound weird that CCP would put a stop to that. I wonder if there was another reason for the change that just impacted gankers as a side-effect? > [@Mortlake](#): > > The vast majority of those being the type that wipe their asses with cacti repeatedly whilst writing a succession of increasingly angry letters to the Royal Horticultural Society complaining that the spikes are too sharp. I think those are a relative minority of players that left the game. The majority probably decided that it just wasn’t for them, which is entirely reasonable. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > It just doesn’t get much more lame or hypocritical than that. This isn’t about being competitive. It’s about justifying cowardice and parasitism. I won’t argue against the apparent hypocrisy there, but I will contest the idea that their actions are parasitism. CCP designed EVE as a game where being a pirate and robbing other players is an entirely valid way to play. If you don’t like that, then maybe you shouldn’t be playing EvE? > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > This is obviously what people like @Kezrai_Charzai here want. They are not new player or concerned about them. They are usually veteran industrialists who want only the part of the sandbox they profit from but not the one that poses any risk to their activities so that they have to cope with that risk (which is perfectly possible and actually part of the game). Don’t buy their lies that this is about new players. I’ve looked at their character in-game. Been a member of the State War Academy since they joined on 2007.08.12. I’m also not taking everything she says as fact, just as I’m not taking everything anyone here says as fact, yourself included (no offense). I’m just trying to figure out what would be good for the game I’ve come to love so much, one day at a time. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > If EVE added more and better things to do, these other problems would be less of an issue. This, I will readily agree with. > [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > Is it? Or has it just been implemented rather poorly? Like for many years the formula seemed to work. And then it stopped. > > I don’t claim to know. But it does seem strange to me to have a design work well for 8 or so years, and then just stop working. It’s possible of course for some intrinsic reason, as is external factors changing the equation, but it seems a simpler explanation that they just took their eye off the ball and aren’t doing what once worked as well as they should. I think this might be the closest thing to an objectively true statement in the entire thread. > [@Frank\_Truck](#): > > Can’t believe anyone is taking this article seriously. > > The guy outted himself as one of the people who destroyed the game as soon as he said PvPers “preying” on each other. > > Those are not the words of a thoughtful developer, those are the words of a cry baby care bear, the kind that ruined UO. I’ve heard PvP actions in EvE called that before, especially when the players are engaging in piracy. [The original Reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/2udqfz/gordon_walton_former_executive_producer_of_uo/) also goes into more detail about what happened, and it sounds like a lot of the PvP players in UO were just looking for people they could kill without risk. Once they only had each other left to fight, it wasn’t fun for them anymore. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > An aspect of the articles that doesn’t get touched on much, is where in the UO post-mortem they talk about ‘giving players the tools to police themselves’. > > Personally I think the Concord mechanic is kinda lame and boring, and not really representative of what EVE is supposed to be about. If I wanted to design a ‘harsh and unforgiving universe, where actions have consequences and people need to deal with them’, I probably would have gone with something like: > > - Concord only covers rookie systems, career agent systems, trade hubs and maybe 1-2 jumps out from trade hubs (slower response time each jump out), and possibly a couple other systems designed to be neutral meeting grounds. > - Leave the flag system somewhat as it is, but make it so that killing an ‘illegal’ target bumps your ‘Criminal Standing’. It also gives ‘kill rights’ to the corporation of the person you killed. Since most systems have no Concord, kill rights in this context only means ‘they can shoot you without getting criminal flags, but if they do you can shoot back’. > - The length of the kill rights the victim corp gets depends on the value of the kill. Corps could also pay ISK or possibly Concord/DED LP (see below) to extend those kill rights. > - Bounties would pay out 65% of ‘destroyed value’ from the killmail. > - Killing criminals pays out some type of Concord/DED LP based on (destroyed value) X (Criminal Standing). Notorious criminals pay out more. > - Once your ‘Criminal Standing’ got high enough, the kill rights would extend to the targets’ alliance. > - Once your Criminal Standing gets high enough, that’s it, you’re declared a pirate and are KOS to everyone everywhere. > - A significant criminal standing would cancel the ability to buy ship insurance. > - It would be very difficult to lower your Criminal Standing (however you might get benefit with the pirate factions for it). > > It would need some testing and tweaking, but I think this would result in a few things: > > - People would have a strong incentive to join the biggest meanest corp they could. > - Gankers would face the same kind of risk their targets do… that of being a viable target at any time to any random attacker (with kill rights) that happens by. > - Bounties would become meaningful again, and players would have some recourse to being attacked (if you can’t fight back, just slap a bounty on him). > - People would have an actual reason and economic motive to fleet up and go looking for gankers/criminals. > - Criminals would have to choose between flying around in a paper tiger ‘gank fit’ or fit for tanking or escaping. > > Now being a criminal would be a real thing, being a ‘white knight’ or cop would be a real thing, and even victims would have some agency because every bit added to the bounty would make the target that much more likely to be killed. I have no idea if this would work or not, but at least it’s an idea. Have a like. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > I’m not sure if you jump into the middle of a discussion and pretend I addressed your opinion. Go read what people like @Kezrai_Charzai say in this thread. She is clearly opposed to non-consensual PvP, which means 100% safety in highsec. What about her post right above yours? > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Do you think it is somehow news that you will find a cheaper counter to every setup? Also again, that was just a quick demonstration that shows that the mining ships aren’t as defenseless as some here try to make it look like. Also there is still room for two more fleets of light drones. C’mon man, you said it was equivalent to a HAC, and it isn’t. It’s not defenseless and gets pretty close in EHP, but it looks to me like you were exaggerating for effect. That’s fine, you don’t need to double down on it. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 4:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/146 "2019-10-07T04:07:57Z")
Not weird at all CCP stopped it. It meant to gank a freighter you only needed 3ish characters and about 100 Mil isk in cost. It meant 200 Mil cargo was worth ganking and your per character isk per hour was insane. CCP want ganking yes, but they don’t want it uncontrolled. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/147 "2019-10-07T05:56:33Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Not weird at all CCP stopped it. It meant to gank a freighter you only needed 3ish characters and about 100 Mil isk in cost. It meant 200 Mil cargo was worth ganking and your per character isk per hour was insane. Apart from the characters you need a lot more ships to hyper-dunk a target because it takes quite some time and shield recharge is a thing. maybe you should stop constantly talking about things you don’t understand anything about. > [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > C’mon man, you said it was equivalent to a HAC, and it isn’t. It’s not defenseless and gets pretty close in EHP, but it looks to me like you were exaggerating for effect. My dude, It wasn’t just EHP. The ship is in the range of a HAC when correctly fitted. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 10:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/148 "2019-10-07T10:23:29Z")
> [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > I’m just trying to figure out what would be good for the game I’ve come to love so much, one day at a time. The pretend-PvPers have to keep assuming I’m a miner, an industrialist, a hater, a poor-ass player who got ganked and never got over it etc. etc. This is because they understand that clear and logical analysis of the PvP-parasite playstyle leads inevitably to the conclusion that ‘this playstyle is bad for the overall health of the game’, so they desperately try to deflect all such analysis. I’ve mentioned it before but will re-iterate here: I don’t dislike CCP or anyone who works at it. I’m not angry at EVE or anyone who plays it. My ‘playstyle’ has never been nerfed or overly affected by any changes CCP has done. I also do not ‘love’ EVE, and have never played it as my ‘main’ game. I play many other MMOs/combat/PvP/strategy type games. My primary issue with EVE has always been that it has hovered on the verge of being a really great game (for me, ymmv) but has never actually pulled off the design changes that would make it both interesting for me and, IMO, a more successful and satisfying game for a much larger percentage of its’ current and potential players. I would rather see a growing, successful, developing EVE than a declining EVE that has too few resources to make significant change. > [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > I won’t argue against the apparent hypocrisy there, but I will contest the idea that their actions are parasitism. CCP designed EVE as a game where being a pirate and robbing other players is an entirely valid way to play. If you don’t like that, then maybe you shouldn’t be playing EvE? Parasitism _is_ a perfectly valid action. That doesn’t make it a _healthy_ one. CCP designed a game where you could kill and steal from other players - that doesn’t mean it was a _good design decision_. However, that design decision does not impact me at all, since I don’t feel any need to get my jollies from making someone else’s play experience unpleasant, nor do I operate in a fashion that allows such players to victimize me. They are irrelevant. It does not seem to occur to you, or to many others, that a person can analyze the pros and cons of a design decision without being emotionally involved either way. Non-consensual, unbalanced PvP in high sec does not affect me, I couldn’t care less about it personally. I believe it has a negative long-term impact on the player population of EVE, as evidenced by the OP and my own article links, as well as by the simple math “1 happy ganker = dozens/hundreds/thousands of unhappy victims”. If EVE was growing, if it was attracting new players and keeping them, you could ignore that effect. It doesn’t appear to be an overwhelming bleed factor - just a persistent and significant one. EVE isn’t growing, and _is_ bleeding players rapidly, and so the issue becomes _slightly_ more important to consider in “what should we do next to improve EVE?”. I don’t think ‘chaos era’ and ‘pulling the rug out from under players’ (the current CCP plan) is a good response to a game in decline. I do think that making PvP more desirable and accessible in various ways, that making PvE less rewarding (compared to PvP, or PvP more rewarding, or both) and less repetitive/bottable/farmable, and adding more engaging/interesting content, is what EVE needs to continue to be viable. (Note: among other changes, of course, NPE/monetization/encouraging social cooperation etc. Not going into those because off-topic.) ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 6:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/149 "2019-10-08T06:13:18Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > My therapist said I should indulge in playing the bad guy in a virtual environment. > > He said it is a way for me to express myself, and dampens on the possibility of ending up doing said bad things in RL from too much held-up frustration. This post contradicts popular belief that online behaviour does not have any relations to RL…🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 12:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/150 "2019-10-08T12:39:07Z")
I don’t know if it’s a popular belief, but it’s a wrong one nonetheless. Most people suck at knowing themselves behind the surface, so it’s to be expected, though. There simply is no way of seperating the real persona from what he’s doing, which includes everything he does in real life, as in video games. It’s just not always directly mappable. Not every personality trait directly corresponds with his ingame behaviour. For the same reason you see tons of White Knights who are, absolutely not, White Knights in real life. They just _want to be_ White Knights, maybe because they’ve been watching too many Disney Movies. And that’s not because they want to be good people. It’s because _they want to be perceived as good people and, most importantly, looked up upon_. ---
**Author:** ![Andre\_Matar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andre_matar/32/296078_2.png) [@Andre\_Matar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andre_Matar)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 1:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/151 "2019-10-09T13:53:51Z")
There are real white knights irl. They just haven’t had their asses handed to them by life yet. I used to be one. The transformation is pretty weird. Still trying to find my way back. Hope people don’t go through that. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 3:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925/152 "2019-10-09T15:12:38Z")
I know. I didn’t mean to imply they don’t also exist in the real world. They’d just unlikely get stuck in a video game with that, because they can express and act on that desire in the real world already. Oh, btw, totally unrelated: Why are you here? 🙂 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-old-article-about-ideas-uo-and-crowfall-developer-in-pvp/192925.md?page=8)