# An Open and Honest Letter to CCP from an Alliance Leader **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 10, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870 "2022-10-10T20:47:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 4:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/631 "2022-10-13T04:03:27Z")
> [@CCP\_Swift](#): > > I think Shines identified a lot of issues that players of many playstyles feel is important; some of his answers are null-sec focuses, but the problems are more universal. I’m oversimplifying, of course, but: > > - I want a reason to undock > - I want some goals that are within reach, and some that are harder > - I want more people in space to interact with > - I want iterative changes to systems I’ve mastered > > New, old, null, hs - I think those are some topics that a lot of players can get behind. I missed this gem. a Dev who actually posts and of course it’s a null thread, seriously no bias to his old friends. Posting all the tim… oh wait no, DEVS pretty much never post on their own forums and it’s been a month since Swift posted. - the reason to undock is because you WANT to, to engage in this thing called player interaction by pvping, taking space and engage in PVE while accepting its can’t be done in super safety. If you have to be persuaded to undock in this pvp sandbox you might just be playing the wrong game (and that means the DEVS shouldn’t cater to you too much). - goal are within reach, it’s called the undock button and fly to somewhere near you that’s not full of blues and then go pewpew. It’ll take a while to find non-blues but that’s their own choice and fault and I guess that’s the harder goal (lol). Beyond that they can PVE just fine, it’s just more difficult to grind for their 5th titan. HTFU and all that. - there are people in space, they just blued them all for… reasons, totally not to be able to grind in safety of course. - and by iterative they mean “more”, always more. Funny that. ---
**Author:** ![Arya\_Yeshe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arya_yeshe/32/397211_2.png) [@Arya\_Yeshe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arya_Yeshe)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 4:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/632 "2022-10-13T04:04:23Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > why null sec have to get all the safety and all the money 🤔 null bears years ago must have complained that they need more reasons to undock and more things to do, that made the ISK be spread all over New Eden in many activities, CCP did this very well it was a good job they thought CCP would put eve more eggs in their basket?? that some self-entitlement!!! the eggs are all around now and now they say they have no reason to undock… HAHAHAAH two different scenarios and in both they had no reason to undock, their only reason is putting even more eggs in their basket and let them have all revenue sources in the same system, so they can close the system and farm it endlessly! This game has never been so good! ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 4:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/633 "2022-10-13T04:21:38Z")
They also demand passive income - income without undocking! ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 5:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/634 "2022-10-13T05:26:06Z")
> [@Khalid\_DeCroix](#): > > Well yes, if you’re advocating for the end of Eve on the eve forums, it would make total sense that no one would agree with you. Advocating? No. But I’d rather EVE die as EVE than a weird lame version of it. If nulls are bored, then fight peeps. If you don’t wanna, then don’t but don’t cry to daddy CCP 😃 > [@Khalid\_DeCroix](#): > > So simply put, you want to see Eve die and are advocating for that. Yeah, nobody is going to agree with you. Why are you even here? Because I find enjoyment in playing EVE 😃 Which apparently you and your nullbear friends don’t anymore. So why are you here 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 5:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/635 "2022-10-13T05:42:07Z")
Lowsec Rats bounty hunting doesn’t always show up on those boards. o/ ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 5:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/636 "2022-10-13T05:54:22Z")
[quote="Iceacid Frostpacker, post:635, topic:379870, full:true, username:Iceacid\_Frostpacker”] Lowsec Rats bounty hunting doesn’t always show up on those boards. o/ [/quote] that was yesterday this pic is only today ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 5:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/637 "2022-10-13T05:57:05Z")
The thread has delivered. Tribalism is still a thing, even at this low point in the game’s life expectancy. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/638 "2022-10-13T05:58:31Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > The thread has delivered People have opposing views, who knew. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 6:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/639 "2022-10-13T06:00:13Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > The thread has delivered. Tribalism is still a thing, even at this low point in the game’s life expectancy. there is tribalism but i don’t think its only tribalism look at the price of the PLEX in all my life in EVE i lost 57 bil in ships thats like nothing compared who you think owns most of it (the plex)… and i dont have any problem with rich people but wen they come in mass to say OH poor us … ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 6:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/640 "2022-10-13T06:05:36Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > People have opposing views, who knew. the inability to look beyond the scope of one’s own play style ? ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 6:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/641 "2022-10-13T06:06:43Z")
If they are opposed play styles and one of them has been catered for and pampered by CCP for years? Yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 6:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/642 "2022-10-13T06:20:08Z")
There’s a number of posts of mine (that were deleted in a big cleanup, not unnecessary) that addressed that point. The gist was simply: if changes to the game result in a significant exodus of players, to the point where we are now, it’s probably best to listen to their reasons - or there won’t be a game left for _anyone_. If that happens to be nullsec, arguably the most organized section of the community, then shouting and booing from the sidelines is really not that constructive nor in the best interest of the game. The post, as I see it, is an alarm call from someone who has good knowledge and first hand experience in that exodus of players. That, at the very least, is its main merit. The details of the post, the possibilities and thoughts, are openers for a dialogue with ccp (my interpretation anyway). And no, I do not agree with every point in his post. But discussing that here would be point-less. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 6:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/643 "2022-10-13T06:32:51Z")
If the exodus of players would be the ones who don’t believe in the pvp sandbox and want no part of it then I’d rather see them gone (and accept possible consequences, if any) than have the game change and cater to them to the point where EVE stops being EVE. Beyond that it’s just crying and feet stamping, “give me iskies or else” just like how carebears do the “I’ll log in my main” or whatever other soy boy man child empty threats they use. They can do just fine it’s just LESS than it used to be. It’s the exact same issue as with the mining buffs: they got like 10 massive buffs to mining and **one** thing that could be classed as a nerf (residue) but they got all those buffs partly because of that nerf. And all these clowns could do was cry and whine over the 1 nerf, not even acknowledging or being happy about the other zillion buffs. As I keep saying: it’s never enough for carebears, this is just another case and another cry thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 6:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/644 "2022-10-13T06:39:13Z")
> [@Induce\_Deadline](#): > > What is it Shines has posted that you disagree with and feel would cause harm to high sec? Dont see a CCP before your name there, Jim ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 6:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/645 "2022-10-13T06:42:11Z")
To be fair, the game encourages it with corps and alliances and blocs. Im not sure why anyone would expect different. Factionalisation is one of the basics of conflict-based play. “What factions are there?” Is a common question for new players to ask when considering joining a game. ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 6:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/646 "2022-10-13T06:47:19Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > I don’t care about sub numbers. > > If nullbears quit, that’s good for me. > > The game is still here, and I’m having fun. For the next year until the sub numbers are 400 players. And it takes you 8 ish hours to find another player in game. As the game empties out more and more people will go to the dangerous areas because they are becoming safer. There will be no one left in high sec as those that remain will get bored out of their minds and eventually leave. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 6:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/647 "2022-10-13T06:52:24Z")
Wont there be new players in HS not being ganked because in your view the gankers will go to null because its empty? ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 7:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/648 "2022-10-13T07:09:41Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > If the exodus of players would be the ones who don’t believe in the pvp sandbox You may find that some of the most hardcore believers in the pvp sandbox reside in nullsec (and in the CSM for that matter). Hell, occasionally they even defend hisec gankers when they’re under heavy criticism from anti-pvp’ers. > [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > Beyond that it’s just crying and feet stamping Whatever it is, and some of it for some individuals may be crying and feet stamping, it is also voting with wallets. > [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > They can do just fine it’s just LESS than it used to be Indeed, and the OP doesn’t ask for a complete reversal of income nerfs. He even acknowledges that supercap proliferation and rorqual mining was a serious issue. What more can you possibly demand from him than to acknowledge those problems ? What he does point out is the erosion of one crucial _business_ related element: FUN. If customers no longer have FUN - for whatever reason that you may think is childish - they stay away. We can go into the details of what this fun could be in nullsec, but again that is not the point. If Coca-Cola Co. changes the taste of their top product, and the consumers don’t like it, well, in that case the customer is right. How could he not be ?! > [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > And all these clowns could do was cry and whine over the 1 nerf The waste mechanic has a psychological side effect, for better and for worse. People don’t _have_ to like it. Personally, after doing a bit of arithmetic, I don’t care about waste mechanics, they’re an extra number that will only affect the extra greedy, lol. Yes, we agree on that point 😛 > [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > it’s never enough for carebears There’s a bit more to it than that oversimplification. Losing customers at the current rate is a threat to the business that keeps this game available. There can never be enough FUN, and OP (and others long before him) have repeatedly pointed out that the fun factor is under extreme pressure from the cascade of changes. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 7:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/649 "2022-10-13T07:24:32Z")
Could CCP make some better changes? Of course they could. But by and large, I feel the large null blocks have become stagnant and afraid of change. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 7:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870/650 "2022-10-13T07:31:58Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > But by and large, I feel the large null blocks have become stagnant and afraid of change. Perhaps they’re now over-sensitized and afraid of even more changes. But let’s not kid ourselves. It’s not nullblocks that are leaving, it’s individuals. Perhaps they are mostly from nullsec (I do not have data on the demographics, of course), perhaps nullsec was hit the hardest by all the changes, and to the point where it’s no longer rewarding to spend even more time on a game that no one would even dream of calling casual. If it is indeed nullsec that is hit the hardest, and people vote with their wallets, that’s a lot more votes than say “hisec gankers” could produce. That’s really all there is to it (and its effect on the business). “Perhaps” the changes, especially the degree to which these changes affect each other and multiply their effect (!!!) on the fun factor have gone too far. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870.md?page=21) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader/379870.md?page=23)