# An Open Letter to CCP from Current and Former CSM Members on the "Prospector Pack" **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [March 9, 2022, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742 "2022-03-09T21:01:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/768 "2022-03-11T15:09:54Z")
So this is my forum off-season, in general I’ve no time for posting for the next 6 months or so. Had to make time to comment on this topic though. This is truly unbelievable “We don’t know what the f\*\*k we’re doing here” on CCP’s part. I’ve been pointing out the very poor value in “CCP Packs” for a couple years now, but this goes above and beyond “bad at math” and into the realms of “sheer blind stupidity”. (Note: I’m well aware that CCP crossed some of these lines in the past, with previous ‘starter packs’ that went for as little as $5 but gave excellent value. However they actually hid those packs back then so they were hard to find and had to be carefully explained to new players to even see the value in them.) Can’t read 750+ posts but a few lines jump out at me: > [@Merkelchen](#): > > **I don’t know or recognize this company anymore.** > [@Amarena\_Tinuviel](#): > > This can only mean that the levels of disconnect between various parts of the EVE team at CCP must be so much greater than we previously thought > [@Highfly\_Chastot](#): > > Focus on the players enjoyment and the game itself, not making a quick buck on niave new players. and for summary: > [@Cade102](#): > > CCP continue to come up with the most stupid money making microtransactions, chasing a market that barely exists. > If they concentrated on selling cosmetic items that the already established player base would actually want to buy, they’d be doing far better. > They are completely inept and naive when it comes to marketing, merchandising and microtransactions. And always have been. > They do not understand their player base. > They do not understand their game. > They believe that milking new players for as much cash as possible during the 3-4 months that they are going to hang around for before quitting forever is a long term, sustainable goal. CCP doesn’t understand their player base, or marketing, or how to structure a set of sustainable micro-transactions without salting their own fields. They’ve gotten so totally disconnected from current trends in the MMO gaming space that none of the decision makers seem to be able to distinguish good ideas from bad. “ **We made this package at this price point and some players paid us cash for it, therefore whatever we’re doing must be working** ” seems to be the only rationale they’ve got. Well. that and sheer desperate greed, I guess. All I can say is, with every year that goes by, I’m more convinced that halting sending cash to CCP 10 years ago is one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. Enough people doing that might send a clearer message to CCP than any number of posts. **There are none so blind as those who will not see.** ---
**Author:** ![AzothPrime](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/azothprime/32/387961_2.png) [@AzothPrime](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/AzothPrime)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 3:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/769 "2022-03-11T15:24:42Z")
For $25 Plex..you could convert that to Isk and buy 50 Retrievers in game. This pack isn’t even a good deal. # My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined ---
**Author:** ![GeeShizzle\_MacCloud](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geeshizzle_maccloud/32/398697_2.png) [@GeeShizzle\_MacCloud](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/GeeShizzle_MacCloud)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/770 "2022-03-11T15:29:12Z")
the retriever packs value all in is approximately 2.4b or so if you were to purchase it all with ISK at the time of this comment. (citation is hateless [in his video about it](https://youtu.be/zTY3Irb7ykk?t=862) btw) ---
**Author:** ![Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anthony_fattony_amico/32/391106_2.png) [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anthony_FatTony_Amico)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 3:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/771 "2022-03-11T15:33:09Z")
> [@AzothPrime](#): > > For $25 Plex…you could convert that to Isk and buy 50 Retrievers in game. > This pack isn’t even a good deal. Right!?! XD I really hope noone falls for this but sadly I am wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/772 "2022-03-11T15:42:59Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > If by learning you mean buying injectors and loading up the skills, then sure. But if you are going to use the slippery slope argument, that ship has sailed. > > You can inject the skills for a Retriever faster than it takes to install the pack. No I mean the actual fitting of ships…the best and most appropriate modules to fit. For example learning about cycle times, range, different shield options, yada yada. There’s a heck of a lot to learn, and though some ship fittings can be picked up online or even here, one does still need an understanding. All of that gets thrown out the window if every month there’s a ‘fully fitted XYZ’ ship from CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 3:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/773 "2022-03-11T15:55:31Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > No I mean the actual fitting of ships…the best and most appropriate modules to fit. Got it. Here’s the thing. That’s been an ongoing problem since injectors were created. Players skilling up, buying a hull and fitting it in a few hours instead of months without a clue how to actually fly the thing. Then they lose it the same day and have a forum meltdown over it. This is not even remotely new. Just now you can buy it all at once instead of needing to find skillbooks and sell PLEX for the ISK to do it. Same result though. The time for rage was when SP went on sale. That was the sacred cow that should never have been touched in the first place. And as stated before, Brisc is all in on it. Most of the people posting in this thread have broken brains. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/774 "2022-03-11T16:23:02Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > Here’s the thing. That’s been an ongoing problem since injectors were created. I don’t actually have a problem with skill injectors ( apart from them being absurdly expensive ). But let me give an example to show the point I’m making…as I feel you are still missing it… A little while back, someone showed me a completely different fitting for a ship I had, that actually doubled what I already thought was the max EHP I could get for that ship, and substantially increased the DPS. It was a revelation of modules I had no idea even existed…or what they were for. It was all stuff I had yet to learn…balancing rig points against high and low slots, etc. Now imagine if that revised ship was avaiable ( along with the SP for it ) in some noob pack. _That_ is what I mean about fitted ships dis-incentivising the learning curve. ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 4:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/775 "2022-03-11T16:24:47Z")
Because it hurts MY bottom line. Competing against players is what EvE is all about. Competing against CCP fiat on prices of the things I sell is not. –Industrialist Gadget ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/776 "2022-03-11T16:30:33Z")
I’m not up for a battle of selected hypotheticals. That could go on all day. You said everything I need to know when you said you were fine with injectors as a regular item and not fine with injectors plus a hull and some fittings as a one time event. Fittings, by the way, that can be just as easily switched out on the advice of someone as in your scenario above. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Erik\_Rebar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erik_rebar/32/311009_2.png) [@Erik\_Rebar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erik_Rebar)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 4:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/777 "2022-03-11T16:38:40Z")
They wouldn’t buy it all at once… If they do it (buy a ship and modules for each pack sold), it would be the same as if a player wanted a ship and went through the ‘effort’ of buying PLEX and exchanged it for ISK and then bought the ship. Since players can already do that, and prices haven’t spiked, nobody should complain. ---
**Author:** ![Angelic\_Bliss](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/angelic_bliss/32/310942_2.png) [@Angelic\_Bliss](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Angelic_Bliss)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 4:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/778 "2022-03-11T16:58:17Z")
Seems like we got the official stance. Promote the retriver pack more: [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/7/7/977a602d826593ced5dc1c02356e4aefccb0c2e9.jpeg "EVE Online | Pulse – Big Industry Updates, Prospector’s Path") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlKLhaEekkY) ---
**Author:** ![Ari\_Khretz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ari_khretz/32/304834_2.png) [@Ari\_Khretz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ari_Khretz)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/779 "2022-03-11T16:59:54Z")
There is a serious problem with what you all, collectively and separately, believe are lines which would radically and irreversibly change the nature of EVE Online and what are acceptable changes. Since many of you are personally responsible for changes to the game which have altered it past being acceptable for the majority of players, it is highly doubtful any of you would understand or care beyond your own limited form of game play. Tens-of-thousands of players have had the “ability to write their own stories” limited or entirely erased because of the selfish and self-centered decisions you have either led CCP to make or rubber-stamped. So excuse those of us remaining who respond to this mining barge “arrangement” and your sanctimonious, mewling reply with a broad yawn. PTW is NOT the most egregious threat to the “EVE experience” (for the majority of players, past and present, it’s actually only one of the annoyances). ---
**Author:** ![Elizabeth\_Seria](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabeth_seria/32/279828_2.png) [@Elizabeth\_Seria](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabeth_Seria)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 5:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/780 "2022-03-11T17:00:12Z")
Skill injectors are transferring SP from one character to another though, not creating SP from nothing. In turn those SP were generated by subbing an account, either with plex or with cash. It’s background revenue for an omega account, much like PI without all the clicking. Obviously CCP is pretty far down the slope on that one, since some of their packs straight up give you SP and others give massive training rate bonuses, but the basic idea of injectors is reasonable. The current pack we’re debating isn’t even SP injectors, it’s an expert system. The buyer gets to borrow skills for a while but they still have to train them to get to keep them. That said, there’s little to stop them from simply selling permanent skill levels or continuing to escalate their fitted ship options unless players take action. Which we are. What do you think the odds are of CCP fixing the build costs of capitals vs. CCP rolling out capital packs for cash? How would those odds look without this open letter and overwhelming community response? ---
**Author:** ![Elizabeth\_Seria](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabeth_seria/32/279828_2.png) [@Elizabeth\_Seria](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabeth_Seria)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 5:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/781 "2022-03-11T17:01:49Z")
you’ve managed a chunky textblock of grievance without once mentioning any specific grievance. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/782 "2022-03-11T17:03:38Z")
/Signed ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 5:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/783 "2022-03-11T17:05:02Z")
> [@Elizabeth\_Seria](#): > > Obviously CCP is pretty far down the slope on that one, since some of their packs straight up give you SP and others give massive training rate bonuses, but the basic idea of injectors is reasonable The training bundles are limited. You can only use them once per login account. IOW, it’s a 1-time shot not continuous. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 5:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/784 "2022-03-11T17:06:07Z")
Never mind. Not worth getting dragged into an argument that has been ongoing for years. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Codename\_Razorback](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/codename_razorback/32/486427_2.png) [@Codename\_Razorback](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Codename_Razorback)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/785 "2022-03-11T17:12:10Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > want to buy If that were true, you wouldn’t fly such cheap ships. #CODEISBROKE ---
**Author:** ![Codename\_Razorback](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/codename_razorback/32/486427_2.png) [@Codename\_Razorback](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Codename_Razorback)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 5:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/786 "2022-03-11T17:18:50Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > Finally. So much, this. +1 ---
**Author:** ![Erik\_Rebar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erik_rebar/32/311009_2.png) [@Erik\_Rebar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erik_Rebar)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 5:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/787 "2022-03-11T17:22:44Z")
Correct me if I’m wrong but you have to get extractors for that, and how do you get them? With PLEX. You could buy them with ISK but how did those end up in the market? Someone had to buy them with PLEX before. So in the end you are paying for that SP with $. Isn’t the current pack the same as the Destroyer bundle that went for $15.99? The skills you got form that were permanent. You can see a review of the pack here: [Eve Prospector Pack Review - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTY3Irb7ykk&t=862s) The only downside of the retriever pack right now is for industrialist because it generates the ship from thin air. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742.md?page=35) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742.md?page=37)