# An Open Letter to CCP from Current and Former CSM Members on the "Prospector Pack" **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [March 9, 2022, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742 "2022-03-09T21:01:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Angelic\_Bliss](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/angelic_bliss/32/310942_2.png) [@Angelic\_Bliss](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Angelic_Bliss)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/789 "2022-03-11T17:31:55Z")
on the surface, thats exactly what people are upset about. side note: the line that isnt / shouldnt be crossed, keeps being moved, it was at one point selling skill points for cash dirrectly, vs from the market edit ---
**Author:** ![Angelic\_Bliss](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/angelic_bliss/32/310942_2.png) [@Angelic\_Bliss](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Angelic_Bliss)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 5:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/790 "2022-03-11T17:32:36Z")
though the problem is where does it stop at this point if not at retrivers ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 5:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/791 "2022-03-11T17:32:43Z")
> [@Erik\_Rebar](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong but you have to get extractors for that, and how do you get them? ![extra](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/c/3/dc3fc4c5c8d8c3da193d396f01837c709fb421b5.jpeg) Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Angelic\_Bliss](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/angelic_bliss/32/310942_2.png) [@Angelic\_Bliss](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Angelic_Bliss)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 5:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/792 "2022-03-11T17:33:24Z")
and thats the only way to get them right? i know your trolling, but I dont think most people say they cant sell stuff and that interaction requires a player ---
**Author:** ![Erik\_Rebar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erik_rebar/32/311009_2.png) [@Erik\_Rebar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erik_Rebar)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/793 "2022-03-11T17:34:08Z")
So you get them with $ directly, or indirectly with ISK or PLEX. At the end you or someone had to spend cash for that SP. The line was crossed years ago. Think about it, the only thing the pack offers that you can’t do right now without it is generating the ship from nothing. You can buy PLEX and change it for ISK and buy the ship. You can buy the SP to fly it too. And to fix it all CCP needs to do is source the ships form the market. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/794 "2022-03-11T17:38:13Z")
> [@Angelic\_Bliss](#): > > i know your trolling I don’t think trolling means what you think it does. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Vera\_Sapientia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vera_sapientia/32/311322_2.png) [@Vera\_Sapientia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vera_Sapientia)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/795 "2022-03-11T17:49:14Z")
CCP, I am fine paying 15/month for the development of a game with a player run economy. Sometimes I don’t play for months but I never feel bad keeping the subscription going because the concept is worth supporting. Hell, I started learning python to pull from the market API and I have turned those skills into a good career. Selling ships is a big warning of what impacts to the player run economy you are willing to tolerate. There are now enough examples of creating different ship classes through sales that it establishes an ongoing and escalating trend. I can no longer safely pay for long distances in the future. Please, reconsider. I have never felt bad about throwing extra cash at you guys and I would like to continue to do so. Short term, this means pausing subscriptions while I observe how you will react. I cant speak for the rest of the community, but for me, this is the line where my tolerance for paid in game content ends. ---
**Author:** ![Regina\_Rockbound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/regina_rockbound/32/310582_2.png) [@Regina\_Rockbound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Regina_Rockbound)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/796 "2022-03-11T17:50:58Z")
> [@Angelic\_Bliss](#): > > Seems like we got the official stance. > > Promote the retriver pack more It’s a nice vid. I enjoyed it, lots of cool things going on in New Eden and stuff to get along with deals. Thanks for the vid. ---
**Author:** ![Planeten\_Schreck](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/planeten_schreck/32/267537_2.png) [@Planeten\_Schreck](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Planeten_Schreck)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/797 "2022-03-11T17:57:34Z")
Signed. Stop make the game “simpler”. Stop Selling stuff that is player made. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/798 "2022-03-11T18:20:07Z")
> [@Loki\_Yamaguchi](#): > > My “agena”…lol…you’re doing great Clouseau… Heh, if all you got is a typo, that says it all 😃 > [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > This isn’t about the game. It isn’t about the players. It’s all about Brisc. Ahh. Your motive is explained finally 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kirsten\_Edhar\_Adestur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kirsten_edhar_adestur/32/311329_2.png) [@Kirsten\_Edhar\_Adestur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kirsten_Edhar_Adestur)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/799 "2022-03-11T18:24:45Z")
Signed. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/802 "2022-03-11T18:44:52Z")
> [@Erik\_Rebar](#): > > I am talking only in the scenario that ships and modules sold in packs are actually bought by CCP from in game markets. Something I suggested to avoid competing with industrialists. In that case, does it really matter if ISK appears from thin air? Why should a player care? Why should an industrialist care? Except, of course, that it’s favoring some industrialists over others, and will, long-term, impact the game’s economy in ways that have a cascading effect. Let’s look at the hull (not the modules, though all of those would need to be sourced, too). Say CCP writes a script to buy the hulls from the market. Which market? Will the script look for the cheapest ship in EVE, or just the cheapest one in Jita? If it’s the former, that’s going to consistently benefit nullsec, because we already have a bunch of markets near low-index production facilities and can move the finished products to those small markets quicker and more easily than most low-index HS production facilities can. And players will figure that out, and you’ll see a whole bunch of people bitching about ‘CCP caters to null’ again. As usual. As _always_. If it’s the latter, then you wind up with more producers trying to make sure they build close to Jita (where the indices are high, driving down profit margins) to get in on the action. As a result, more of their other activities move closer to Jita as well. As the outer markets get even more depleted (FFS, _Amarr_ ran out of crap in December, multiple times. The 2nd-largest hub in the game was less resilient than _Hek_.) more of the players in the areas those hubs service _also_ move to where the supplies are. So you get even more centralized, with huge swaths of highsec that are even more depopulated than they already are. Depopulated stretches of HS is something that even CCP has said is not good for the game. First, it makes it harder for people to find folks to play with. It also makes it harder to find people for HS pirates/gankers/PvP types to play _against_ (which, let’s face it, is the same argument, but just highlighting that even the people who want to do ‘solo’ PvP can’t _actually_ do it solo, because ‘Solo PvP’ still requires at least 2 'P’s). And it’s something CCP _claims_ they want to reverse. Personally, I tend to believe that. They just don’t seem to understand how to decentralize their economy at all. So more cascading ill-effects. That, in turn, means more players bitching and unhappy with their game experience. Over time, unhappy players realize ‘hey, I _could_ be doing something with my time that _doesn’t_ piss me off!’ And they _do_. > [@Erik\_Rebar](#): > > Each time you PLEX your account another player has had to have bought that PLEX with real money. > > **So even without the ship packs you can just buy the ship you want using real money right now.** Yes, in fact, we _are_ well aware of that, and you’ll note that I included that bit in my response to Cherry re: SKINs. But here’s the difference: Where did the guy you sell the PLEX to get the ISK? See, that’s the redeeming quality of PLEX: the only way to sell it for ISK is by getting that ISK from someone who made it in-game. It’s why your suggestion of ‘buy it off the market’ _feels_ sensible to you—and don’t get me wrong, it’s an improvement over ‘conjure it from thin air’, but as I note, it’s still got lots of problems. All to enable a thing that _doesn’t_ actually solve a problem. PLEX, on the other hand? Yeah, that solved problems in its original form: some people just can’t afford to pay $$ for the game, for whatever reason. Others don’t really have the time to make money in-game, but want to be able to login and go have fun with their friends in activities that don’t make money. So you let the people with more money than time pay the people with more time than money for their ISK-making time. But to avoid gold-farms and RMT, you do it entirely through CCP (which also lets CCP monitor how prevalent it is, and let’s face it, _totally_ double-dip on the process). Solves problem(s) without opening the door to economy-damaging bot-farming—at least, not _too_ much, since we all know some of it still happens, and CCP’s Team Security really does work pretty hard to fight against it. Overall, a net positive for providing options to access the game, and keeping more people in space. Because keeping more people in space, as we saw above, is critical to EVE’s continued viability. And that’s the big difference here. This doesn’t actually solve any problems. It just creates them, in the name of monetization. It’s been pointed out ‘oh, but you can buy destroyers’ and ‘oh, but CCP gives away free Ventures’ and those are also totally true. The free Ventures thing requires players do those missions, so that’s at least compensated by ‘have to go and be in space’. But more importantly… the recent mining changes—especially with this week’s compression changes—make the Retriever _the_ T1 ship for long-duration mining. The Covetor’s great, and it’ll pull in a ridiculous amount of ore for a T1 hull, but it fills up quick unless you compress literally every single cycle, and that can be pretty mind-numbing. It also means an ill-timed ‘OMG, I gotta bio’ (or, conceivably, ‘crap, boss is coming, hide the game!’) will make your mining lasers stop, and miners get kinda cranky about that. The Retriever, though… that’s got a decent-size mining hold. Compress and run, and you’ve got plenty of time. So this pack becomes even more spotlighted because it impacts a ship that _will_ be in significant demand. So the impact of the pack will be magnified. So, tell me: what problem does this pack solve? Is it just ‘CCP wants your money’? Because if it is, there are tons of ways to solve _that_ problem without introducing new ones. Some include better monetization of a larger number of cosmetics. Hell, for all we hear people decrying cosmetic _clothing_ in EVE as playing Barbie, even the most hard-core PvPers I know tend to actually try to look badass in their portraits. Other folks keep asking for things like shorts, or skirts above the knee, or FFS, getting @CCP_Swift a jacket that _fits_ and doesn’t button six inches too high! (Sorry, dude, but c’mon, you’ve worn suit jackets. That thing’s button is right at the bottom of your sternum, the sleeves are too short… you deserve better.) And then there’s SKINs, and other ideas for in-space cosmetics All of those things would get CCP money. They’d get players feeling like CCP is listening. They’d give players more options to _feel_ like they’ve got some control over their game experience (really, it’s stupid, you give someone a totally meaningless choice, and it works, they get invested and more willing to do the thing they were getting fed up with before. Not because of the impact of what they chose, but because _making a choice_ makes them feel like they’ve got some kind of control over things. This is basic sociology/marketing, too). But _those_ solutions to the ‘CCP wants more money’ problem hinge on the one thing this ‘solution’ circumvents: You have to make sure players want to keep playing. This is aimed at ‘get the money from them before they quit’, which means the assumption of ‘they _will_ quit’ is in CCP’s marketing team’s heads. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabeth\_Seria](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabeth_seria/32/279828_2.png) [@Elizabeth\_Seria](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabeth_Seria)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 6:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/803 "2022-03-11T18:48:56Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > This is aimed at ‘get the money from them before they quit’, which means the assumption of ‘they _will_ quit’ is in CCP’s marketing team’s heads. This. It’s clear at least some slice of CCP leadership has lost faith in the game, which makes it hard to see the value in continuing to play through to the bitter end. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/804 "2022-03-11T18:51:18Z")
> [@Elizabeth\_Seria](#): > > It’s clear at least some slice of CCP leadership has lost faith in the game, which makes it hard to see the value in continuing to play through to the bitter end. As I will be staying to the bitter end, I’ll happily accept your stuff to help me in my mission. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/805 "2022-03-11T18:51:39Z")
> [@Erik\_Rebar](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong but you have to get extractors for that, and how do you get them? With PLEX. You could buy them with ISK but how did those end up in the market? Someone had to buy them with PLEX before. So in the end you are paying for that SP with $. No, the SP are not generating $$ for CCP. The service of moving them from one character to another is. That’s not adding anything to the game. Now, is the existence of that service bad for the game? Quite possibly, and a whole _lot_ of people have called for extractors/injectors to be removed. So holding them up as ‘but nobody bitches about these’ is, what’s that word? Oh yeah: wrong. Cuz people do ■■■■■ about those, too. They especially ■■■■■ about how putting those in literally on the same patch as ‘here, now this capital ship is the ultimate mining vessel and you ALL need one’ was such a naked cash grab, even the CCP devs just kind of smiled and shrugged when asked about it, but never _denied_ that was the primary motive. Sooooo… yeah, lotta bitching about those out there, too. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabeth\_Seria](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabeth_seria/32/279828_2.png) [@Elizabeth\_Seria](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabeth_Seria)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/806 "2022-03-11T19:07:40Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > I’ll happily accept your stuff to help me in my mission. I’m a bit of a spiteful bastard though… if I quit in protest then my stuff’s getting biomassed with me. Wouldn’t be right to enable someone to stay in an abusive relationship with a game company like that. We’re not there yet, of course, but it’s been five steps forward for every step back from the cliff’s edge these days. ---
**Author:** ![Thovas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thovas/32/311346_2.png) [@Thovas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thovas)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/807 "2022-03-11T20:07:16Z")
Signed ---
**Author:** ![Aya\_Yuriko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aya_yuriko/32/436906_2.png) [@Aya\_Yuriko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aya_Yuriko)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/808 "2022-03-11T20:27:27Z")
#signed ---
**Author:** ![Billy\_TheBishop](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/billy_thebishop/32/479005_2.png) [@Billy\_TheBishop](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Billy_TheBishop)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/809 "2022-03-11T20:31:24Z")
CCP, you just gave away my time and money that I put into the game. I support stopping the sale of PROSPECTOR PACK. ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Florence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/will_florence/32/501788_2.png) [@Will\_Florence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Will_Florence)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/810 "2022-03-11T20:33:48Z")
Full agree… Can’t have pay to win or pay and get ships. This take away what Eve is. If this stays, where does it stop… Next thing we will know is that all ships can be bought with cash on the Nex store!!! NOT ACCEPTABLE. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742.md?page=36) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742.md?page=38)