# An Open Letter to CCP from Current and Former CSM Members on the "Prospector Pack" **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [March 9, 2022, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742 "2022-03-09T21:01:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Drake\_Razgriz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drake_razgriz/32/311357_2.png) [@Drake\_Razgriz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drake_Razgriz)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/811 "2022-03-11T21:51:22Z")
~Signed ---
**Author:** ![Ka\_miko\_Moliko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ka_miko_moliko/32/465061_2.png) [@Ka\_miko\_Moliko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ka_miko_Moliko)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/812 "2022-03-11T22:18:49Z")
Shhhh! Don’t give 'em ideas! ---
**Author:** ![Erik\_Rebar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erik_rebar/32/311009_2.png) [@Erik\_Rebar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erik_Rebar)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 10:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/813 "2022-03-11T22:23:32Z")
CCP would need to buy the ship that’s closer to the player. To prevent abuse they should use only bigger market hubs. So no 1 billion ship sold by chance because it was closer. The current markets would make sure prices are fair. You as the buyer wouldn’t care about the ship’s price in ISK and the industrialists producing the ships wouldn’t known where the ships will end up being bought. From their point of view it’s just like any other sale. Demand might increase a bit but if demand hasn’t increased significantly for all items since PLEX (meaning P2W) was introduced why should selling ship as packs increase it. It wouldn’t be centralized and in fact it could help other markets other than Jita. Since you support PLEX your stance is ‘I’m fine with P2W but I don’t want P2W’. Yes, CCP is lazy. I would much prefer better skins or cosmetics instead of ships. But whatever, its not the end of the world. Yeah it screws with industrialist but there’s a fix. The line was crossed already. And like you there are many others that don’t mind PLEX and don’t even consider it P2W. Wake up people ships can already be bought with cash. ---
**Author:** ![DuncanPeach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duncanpeach/32/311364_2.png) [@DuncanPeach](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DuncanPeach)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 10:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/814 "2022-03-11T22:34:26Z")
As a long time player, with breaks, I don’t mind the packs. Monetization keeps the wheels spinning. Would you rather the game suffer from a lack of devs? or a lack of servers? what has to be sacrificed to stop the sale of a pack? I mean, adapt and overcome. Progression is a thing these days. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 10:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/815 "2022-03-11T22:34:54Z")
> [@Erik\_Rebar](#): > > To prevent abuse they should use only bigger market hubs. So no 1 billion ship sold by chance because it was closer. The current markets would make sure prices are fair. It shouldn’t be that expensive to buy out one of the non-Jita market hubs if it means you can reliably sell ships for 1 billion that way by positioning your alt close to that particular hub and buying a pack. You clearly haven’t thought like an EVE player about this ‘solution’ yet. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 10:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/816 "2022-03-11T22:43:05Z")
After considering this topic, I am sorry, but I have to take the other side. The Eve market/economy has never been perfect from a first-principles point of view. There are NPC buy and sell orders for a bunch of junk. You can buy ships from the mission reward store, with no blueprint or minerals. The starter agents give away stuff like ships and modules. All of these interfere with the proper, efficient operation of the player-run economy. If we, as players, don’t object to the free ships that CCP sometimes put in our stockings then how is CCP going to take us seriously when we have a collective seizure when they sell an overpriced retriever to some dupes? These offers only become problematic when the price CCP is selling the pack for is a deal. So long as it is a complete rip off (like it is now), it won’t affect anything. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Snowfox](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/john_snowfox/32/299803_2.png) [@John\_Snowfox](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/John_Snowfox)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 11:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/817 "2022-03-11T23:23:19Z")
It seems that the only arguments against the points in the OP are: 1. “The line was crossed already” 2. “(Some) People who argue that this is bad don’t argue the same about other things, therefore their arguments are wrong” Both of these arguments are fallacious for reasons that have been explained over and over. ---
**Author:** ![Erik\_Rebar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erik_rebar/32/311009_2.png) [@Erik\_Rebar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erik_Rebar)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 11:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/818 "2022-03-11T23:39:56Z")
So you’re saying that if you can buy out all the ships and since buying would be automatic you can easily sell for 1 trillion? Mmm that’s indeed possible. Good point, hadn’t thought of that. I guess you can program the buying script to avoid buying when the price exceeds the regional price or some percentage of the build cost? But yeah that complicates things unnecessarily. So much for the solution. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 12:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/819 "2022-03-12T00:15:45Z")
> [@Erik\_Rebar](#): > > CCP would need to buy the ship that’s closer to the player. Closer to the player? But 3 alts per account. Which alt are they basing that on? How do you manage that in an automated script? Remember: the ship is in the redeem queue before you get past character select. > [@Erik\_Rebar](#): > > To prevent abuse they should use only bigger market hubs. Uh-huh. And right now… ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/0/6/1/061ef617573763ef4a6d4fdd029ec5bbd486f0c6.png) So the top 5 are… Jita, Amarr, Perimeter, Dodixie, and 1DQ1-A. That’s 2 in Caldari space, literally 1 gate apart. So if we combine those, the top 4 are: Jita, Amarr, Dodixie… and then nullsec. Sorry, all of Minmatar highsec… > [@Erik\_Rebar](#): > > The current markets would make sure prices are fair. You really think so? Lemme introduce you to ‘market manipulation’, which would start happening to the modules literally the moment that gets announced. Look up the history of market manipulation in EVE. It’s possible, it’s not even _that_ infrequent, and when the players think they can make a stupid amount of money doing it, they _will_. > [@Erik\_Rebar](#): > > Since you support PLEX your stance is ‘I’m fine with P2W but I don’t want P2W’. No, not at all. Because PLEX is grounded in ‘this has to come from the players. This is only a means for transferring between players without directly impacting market issues’. Which, again, is why I say your suggestion is an _improvement_. But it’s still a solution in search of a problem. And that’s the distinction you seem hell-bent on ignoring: PLEX solved an actual problem for players that actually existed. So the downsides, while real and undeniable, are worth it to solve that problem. What problem is this solving? I’d really appreciate you answering that question, if you can. Because that’s the difference as I see it: there is no problem involved that makes the negatives worth suffering here. What problem is this solving? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 12:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/820 "2022-03-12T00:28:20Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > It shouldn’t be that expensive to buy out one of the non-Jita market hubs Non-Jita? Right now, there are all of 62 Retrievers in the Forge. 1 of them is 415M ISK. Take that off the list, and the rest are under 70M each. 415 + (61 \* 70) = 4.27b. Now let’s add in the Citadel. In the Citadel, there are 26, all of them under 70m. So that’s another 1.82b So, y’know, _screw_ the non-Jita markets. 6.1b? The vast majority of nullsec players could buy out _Jita_ and the surrounding areas. Do the ‘buy from the players’ thing, and yeah, Retrievers become more expensive than supercapitals, because EVE players are _just_ that kind of bastards. ---
**Author:** ![Loki\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loki_yamaguchi/32/495255_2.png) [@Loki\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loki_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 1:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/821 "2022-03-12T01:48:57Z")
For those that are against this specific pack, what is the metric you will use to show that this indeed was bad for the game/industrialists? ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 2:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/822 "2022-03-12T02:00:56Z")
The backlash has already been bad, including the surrounding press. Its okie obv alt is obv 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 2:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/823 "2022-03-12T02:32:13Z")
> [@Regina\_Rockbound](#): > > how the nostalgia can distort the way someone sees a game after so many years. This “someone” would like to see the 50/60k numbers again. And thank you @Arrendis for your accurate long term predictions of the game which made me rich enough in game to give even Cilla isk. Content is content… Like or hate me, following his advice with a 1 or 2 yr goal proved correct for the most part. Beware the words of a savy long term investor in the game. Grrr Goons! 😡 🤣 I still think the wd sys is borked and I’m waiting you people to come up with a solution. [Caddyshack - Well? We’re Waiting - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0YIJQ1jgEI) 😉 Even worse, (and I can’t believe the words coming out my mouth) I have to agree with Mr Epeen that selling sp was the red line we should have walked out on. ---
**Author:** ![Davlin\_Lotze](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/davlin_lotze/32/317156_2.png) [@Davlin\_Lotze](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Davlin_Lotze)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 2:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/824 "2022-03-12T02:55:44Z")
blah blah blah. This is the worst community in all of the MMO world. Impress me by condemning empire suicide ganking, fixing it, and then you can pontificate about this type of monetization. ---
**Author:** ![Raven\_Carci](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/raven_carci/32/423664_2.png) [@Raven\_Carci](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Raven_Carci)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 4:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/825 "2022-03-12T04:03:36Z")
I started this game as and industrial player 8 years ago and have participated in industry at some level ever since. The creation of ships and modules from thin air is insulting and the antithesis of a truly player-driven economy. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 6:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/826 "2022-03-12T06:30:36Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > I still think the wd sys is borked and I’m waiting you people to come up with a solution. Yeaaaah, a _lot_ of us kicked that one around for a fairly long time, and there really _isn’t_ a ‘good’ answer… I think the one we ended up with is one of the ones we’d all pegged as ‘least bad’ options, but exactly which one was _actually_ the best of the bad options, we couldn’t really say without a year or two of data,. And every time you switch up the mechanics, you piss off highsec wardec mercs and more of them stop playing, rather than re-learning all new nonsense. At that point, there’s no benefit to testing the others, because it just muddies the water and costs you the very people you want to keep in space. Aslo, re: making money on my long-term predictions: Cool deal. I dunno, I don’t use my own analysis for market investment, most because market stuff doesn’t really interest me much. I just do my normal day-trading along with other activities. Glad it worked for you, though. > [@Davlin\_Lotze](#): > > Impress me by condemning empire suicide ganking Condemning empire suicide ganking is exactly the opposite direction from what CCP wants the game to be. There is no such thing as ‘safe’ space to fly in, only ‘more dangerous’ or ‘less dangerous’ based on the activities of the people around you. You want safety, come out to null, where the people around you are working to help make you safe. Just understand that you’ll be expected to pitch in, too. ---
**Author:** ![Regina\_Rockbound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/regina_rockbound/32/310582_2.png) [@Regina\_Rockbound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Regina_Rockbound)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 7:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/827 "2022-03-12T07:35:42Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > This “someone” would like to see the 50/60k numbers again. I understand and that’s well said, MB. It’s hard to believe there used to be so many concurrent players at one time while we now have 18k to 19k daily. Looks like death by a thousand cuts. ---
**Author:** ![Yarda\_Black](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yarda_black/32/373282_2.png) [@Yarda\_Black](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yarda_Black)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 8:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/828 "2022-03-12T08:14:35Z")
“Signed” ---
**Author:** ![RainReaper](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rainreaper/32/310001_2.png) [@RainReaper](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/RainReaper)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 8:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/829 "2022-03-12T08:41:57Z")
Signed. This kind of ■■■■ have nothing to do in a game where everything is supposed to be built by the players. as a industrialist focused player this makes me mad as hell ---
**Author:** ![Regina\_Rockbound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/regina_rockbound/32/310582_2.png) [@Regina\_Rockbound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Regina_Rockbound)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 8:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742/830 "2022-03-12T08:45:43Z")
> [@RainReaper](#): > > as a industrialist focused player this makes me mad as hell Yea? How many Retrievers did you sell in the past month before this pack came out? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742.md?page=37) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-letter-to-ccp-from-current-and-former-csm-members-on-the-prospector-pack/352742.md?page=39)